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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by veryvegan View Post
Well, I like my "hippie" lifestyle and your system tries its best to keep me from having it. Everything costs way more than it should, and for me to live, I have to participate in a system I don't like in all kinds of ways. And you're blindly focusing on the individual instead of our community. The way you live doesn't just affect you - it affects me in all kinds of ways. If you buy an SUV, you are sticking pollution out there that I have to deal with. Your expensive BMW is putting carbon out into the atmosphere that is warming our planet and making it impossible for me to keep living, period. I don't get a choice with your system, and I want one.
You have a choice.... move to another nation. No one is stopping you from making that decision.

As for the point that was made earlier about minimum wage, I agree; it should be scrapped, because it isn't worth the congressional paper it was printed on. It is just another in a long line of intrusions by our esteemed federal government.

There are "costs", as you put it, because someone has to actually go out and harvest the crap that you buy at your local grocer. From the fuel you put in your vehicle, to the fuel that is brought to your home, there are underlying costs.

Most americans, for some unGodly reason, seem to think that groceries just appear out of nowhere at their local supermarket; that the fuel at their local gas station is always there. Um, no....

If I am going to take the time and effort to put forth the labor to manufacture and produce a product or products that a majority of americans want or need, why shouldn't I profit?? Its my sweat and tears that went into bringing forth that item to the marketplace. What makes our system so great, is that you have two options: either buy it or don't buy it, a pretty simple concept if you ask me!
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Old 10-02-2006, 08:25 AM
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Death Throes??? Not even. Communism has died, although it's ghost still lingers on a few college campuses. Socialism is dying.

India has made a dramatic economic recovery, because they gave up on socialism and turned to capitalism. Same for China.

Everywhere in the globe that socialism has been tried, it has been a disaster, and for the same reasons. They are:

Socialism REQUIRES central planning of the economy, and that is impossible to do correctly. Nobody can adequately forsee the future, so the plan is always wrong. But since, under socialism, economic decisions are first political decisions, socialism is not able to respond to change. Socialism always looks to the past. (Capitalism decentralizes economic decision making so capitalism is able to respond quickly. Further, capitalism looks to the future.)

Socialism destroys the incentive to innovate and maximize production. Socialist systems always have very high taxes. In othere words, they make everyone a slave worker for the gov't. Slaves are not productive workers.
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Old 10-02-2006, 12:44 PM
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Thank you Silverhair, I was just sitting here reading through all these posts, and I thought I would go crazy before I got to the end so I could throw in my 2 cents. Capitalism is the best economic system yet devised. With few exceptions the only people who suffer in a capitalist system are those that choose to. The simple truth is that it is human nature to get as much as you can with as little effort as possible. And that is why socialism fails. In a capitalist society however, those that refuse to adapt, and who continue to try and get something for nothing are eventually left behind. The more pure the capitalism, the more quickly parasites are cut off. I am not totally against a safety net for people. Sometimes a person will attempt to start a business and it just doesnt work out the way they planned, and I am not against the government providing the barest essentials for a "limited time" to people who have been unsuccessfull in the free market. But when I say bare essentials, that is exactly what I mean. I'm talking about hand me down clothes and barracks like shelter and for sustenance, bread, veggies, maybe some chicken, and water to drink. All of it prepared in the cheapest manner possible in order to minimize the burden upon hard working tax payers. And all of this available for only a limited time while a person gets back on their feet. What you dont want is to have what the government provides to be in any way superior to what you can provide for yourself with even a very low paying job. People will strive to better themselves, and increase their standard of living, but not if you make it to comfortable for them when they are not. Which is why socialism fails. You may think it cruel to watch a bum go hungry, but until he does go hungry, he'll always be willing to be a bum.
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Old 10-02-2006, 01:41 PM
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To CapitalistPig:

Absolutly True!! These morons need to read "The Road to Serfdom", still as accurate as it was in the 1930's. "Atlas Shrugged" would be good for them to read too.
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Old 10-05-2006, 07:24 AM
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If you aren’t happy with minimum wage then get off your lazy behind and find a better job. This is America. Learn what that means. The wealth is concentrated amongst the people that are willing to work for something more than minimum wage and are willing to whatever it takes to do so, such as not buying a ton of dvds and Mcdonalds and investing their money. It’s called delayed gratification.
Move to one of the socialist countries that we have in the world for one year and then lets see if you still like the system. As far as revolution, the last revolution America was in was to secure the rights that I use everyday to lead a more comfortable life style than you do…. And I’m deployed to Kuwait.
Just because you are “very vegan” and don’t eat meat, it doesn’t mean that its wrong. The vast majority of people in America do eat meat, and that means that the flesh of an animal must be “ripped apart,” you are just upset because people working in slaughter houses make more than minimum wage. I don’t see how success dehumanizes anyone. Also, its dollars and cents not sense. Sense is what it takes to see how inane your views are.
I don’t care that my success makes it difficult for you to live a poor life because you prefer it. You have the same opportunities as I do, you chose not to use them. The same is true of every American, regardless of race, religion and creed. America is based on the individual. That’s what capitalism is. I don’t even think you know what the term capitalism means. Your original comment proves your ignorance.

Any system were the lazy can prosper is one that we don’t need. If you don’t work you don’t deserve to eat.
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21yroldmillionaire View Post
If you aren’t happy with minimum wage then get off your lazy behind and find a better job. This is America. Learn what that means. The wealth is concentrated amongst the people that are willing to work for something more than minimum wage and are willing to whatever it takes to do so, such as not buying a ton of dvds and Mcdonalds and investing their money. It’s called delayed gratification.
Move to one of the socialist countries that we have in the world for one year and then lets see if you still like the system. As far as revolution, the last revolution America was in was to secure the rights that I use everyday to lead a more comfortable life style than you do…. And I’m deployed to Kuwait.
Just because you are “very vegan” and don’t eat meat, it doesn’t mean that its wrong. The vast majority of people in America do eat meat, and that means that the flesh of an animal must be “ripped apart,” you are just upset because people working in slaughter houses make more than minimum wage. I don’t see how success dehumanizes anyone. Also, its dollars and cents not sense. Sense is what it takes to see how inane your views are.
I don’t care that my success makes it difficult for you to live a poor life because you prefer it. You have the same opportunities as I do, you chose not to use them. The same is true of every American, regardless of race, religion and creed. America is based on the individual. That’s what capitalism is. I don’t even think you know what the term capitalism means. Your original comment proves your ignorance.

Any system were the lazy can prosper is one that we don’t need. If you don’t work you don’t deserve to eat.
i hope you do not veiw capitalism as equivalant to freedom. it seems to me china has used capitalism to shore up their commie ways, not end them. in fact they are at an advantage because they have to answer to no one for pollution,child labor laws, political slaves,health and saftey and so on. so hold on and watch as someone faster and better takes your place.....unless of course you veiw freedom as what color to buy.then you will be happy either way.
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Old 10-05-2006, 08:23 AM
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Let me clarify, I don’t believe capitalism is the same as freedom. I believe that America is great because we are free and we have a capitalist economy. It takes both. That is what separates us from China.
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Old 10-05-2006, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeydude View Post
i hope you do not veiw capitalism as equivalant to freedom. it seems to me china has used capitalism to shore up their commie ways, not end them. in fact they are at an advantage because they have to answer to no one for pollution,child labor laws, political slaves,health and saftey and so on. so hold on and watch as someone faster and better takes your place.....unless of course you veiw freedom as what color to buy.then you will be happy either way.

China had to loosen it's economic control to gain the degee of success that it has now. Remember, they used to have everybody wearing Mao suits. They have come a long way from where they were. The still have a long way to go, but it will happen. The free market works better as it gets more free. The Chinese gov't will continue to ease up on the people, until one day it will become a democracy.
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverhair View Post
China had to loosen it's economic control to gain the degee of success that it has now. Remember, they used to have everybody wearing Mao suits. They have come a long way from where they were. The still have a long way to go, but it will happen. The free market works better as it gets more free. The Chinese gov't will continue to ease up on the people, until one day it will become a democracy.
i say that there are two chinas. china the modern superpower, with very open markets,exists in around twenty industrialized cities. the rest of the nation is still busy building roads and dams by hand cart. still firmly in the grip of the red star. if anything, our open trade with china makes it harder to root the goverment out of power, not more likely. with US dollars the chinese dazzel their citizens with ultra modern giant cities with the latest technologies,launches people into space, has advanced cruise missle technology and has assembeld a huge military/police force. much of chinas military is based well from the reach of but a few american aircraft. they are a force.a giant on the verge of awakening. i am not one who believes we should finance the alarm clock.

the chinese goverment mixed with an open world market has the advantage. if the city of shanghi want to build a luxury hotle or factory where your home or business is located to bad. no appeal.next.they can play with cities and economies in ways a free nation never could. they can offer any condition that a corporation finds favorable. they do not ask their citizen anything.
companies from around the world are flocking to communist china. not because it is a democracy,in fact it is just the opposite.
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:42 PM
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What do you mean we can't be happly like the citizens of communist Russia and the communist China that existed strongly before they started giving way to more capitalism?
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