Soviet Union: Fell
Communist Mongolia is now a Free Market Economy.
Communist Vietnam has begun a process of freeing up it's economy.
Communist Laos has been encouraging free market practices since the 1980s.
Communist Cuba has already given up on Socialism.
The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia was ousted by it's own people and the economy is getting better, each year.
Communist China has opened up it's market to private investment and free market principles. It's wealth speaks for itself.



All these Nations combined have committed atrocities that have claimed the lives of millions of innocent people. All of them are responsible for stifling political dissenters, forced labor, rape and murder at the hands of their own Governments.

No other Economic Practice in the world has lead to so many needless deaths in the pursuit of Collective Rights and centralized planning of the economy. People starved because of forcing people to grow food on Communal Farms, or lack of innovation at the hands of Soviet industrialists made the standard of living far below that of America and those who benefited from the Marshall Plan and Europe.

I find it unreasonably idiotic that the Nations of the West. A former bastion of Political and Economic Freedom are reverting to Centralization of the Economy and drastically curtailing the practices of Individual Rights and Liberty.

Meanwhile, the former Communist and Socialist Nations are freeing up there respective economies and life gets better, as ours gets worse.

The Free Market Works, and Individual Rights are a necessity for a free society to remain free.

No Socialist Economy has ever worked, ever. Socialism, does not work.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

Socialized medicine does.

Nope, cause it causes an increased tax burden on the society as a whole. High tax burdens slow productivity and drop consumer spending.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

How DO they manage?

Anyhow, if we can afford Trillions for bullshit wars on a tactic, we can rework american healthcare.

How would it do anything except pass the high costs of Healthcare onto the tax payers? We can address the high costs of health care by breaking the monopoly on it from Insurance Companies and encourage competition.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

demonizing socialism is going to make you miss the human error the those people's failures. i love capitalism, because to me it is a flawless tool for executing my personal goals. Publicly, however, capitalism has, like socialism, been connected to and used for "evil deeds". It isn't the economic system, its the individual situations, businesses, and environments. Economy is VERY complex, your understanding is that of someone with down syndrome or a young child. In order to prevent further embarrassment, keep these thoughts to yourself until you've studied a little harder.

So, the situation in the US where an estimated 18,000 people die because they can't afford sickcare proves that free market capitalism is the best?


Oh, right, the US isn't capitalist free market enough because it has too many socialist systems like Medicare, Medicaid, and so on, and if we got rid of them, then the death rate would be lower because all of a sudden people would be getting free medical care???

I would note that if we list the nations with a social policy that ensures that every citizen and resident in the nation has free or affordable healthcare access based on their financial situation, you will need to remove from your list a lot of nations that you would like to point to as proof that capitalism works. The list of nations with universal healthcare by government control of one or more aspects of the market are:
- Japan
- Germany
- Taiwan
- Switzerland
- Britain
- Canada
- France
- all the Nordic states
- basically all of the developed industrial nations except the US

And if we look at China, we see a nation with an authoritarian government, but year after year real economic growth that has really benefited all parts of society, but with violations of property rights in your terms that are many orders of magnitude greater than any in the US.

And then in contrast, we have Kenya which has been considered a liberal democracy with rule of law, capitalistic, and free market, with history closely tied to the West as a former British colony that gained its independence decades ago. And Kenya is a nation rich in natural resources comparable to the US.

So, your argument that socialism doesn't work, communism doesn't work, needs to include as well the proposition that free market capitalism doesn't work either.

The solution is the end state that Marx called for, the post government utopia of anarchy with no government of any sort because the people place the welfare of others above all else.

Mulp your list is a little short.

Most all countries in the world have some form of National health care including countries like Dubai and Iran.

But hey you got the countries most like us.

The really stupid part is that respected research people like the GAO and the American Medical Association have been saying for 20 years it will actually stimulate our economy and put more money in everybodies pockets if we go to national health care.


Hidden Costs, Value Lost: Uninsurance in America

Hidden Cost, Value Lost, the fifth of a series of six books on the consequences of uninsurance in the United States, illustrates some of the economic and social losses to the country of maintaining so many people without health insurance. The book explores the potential economic and societal benefits that could be realized if everyone had health insurance on a continuous basis, as people over age 65 currently do with Medicare.

Hidden Costs, Value Lost concludes that the estimated benefits across society in health years of life gained by providing the uninsured with the kind and amount of health services that the insured use, are likely greater than the additional social costs of doing so. The potential economic value to be gained in better health outcomes from uninterrupted coverage for all Americans is estimated to be between $65 and $130 billion each year.



There is tons of research out there , detailed and complete about the economic benefits to the nation of cutting the insurance companies out and providing health care reasonably to all citizens but some people are just too sill to read the truth when its right in front of their face.

The big US car makers set up shop in Canada and said they mainly did that because it is much cheaper to pay into the Canadian system than what it costs them back here in the US to insure their workers. ..................Ding dong, all businesses could benefit from the same deal the car makers are getting in canada. ........................................or they can move to 3rd world countries where they don't have to pay any health insurance at all.

I know people who are collecting social security disability at great cost to the tax payer. They work part time , just enough to stay under that threshold so they can stay on social security disability. They have to , they have no choice. They have some illness that drugs cost them big money a month for . That would now classify them as preexisting conditions and they couldn't get private insurance to cover. So they are stuck, they would like to work and not take tax payer money, but they have no choice if they want to live. ............................That is just stupid economics and this country is full of that kind of stupid economics.

I have been working on this for the last 10-15 years so I have lots of detailed research on the subject, if anybody needs it.

But , I figure its a no go, people are going to keep dying.

McCain is going to be the next US president and he is as deeply into the insurance lobbyists pockets as Bush is.

If the economy survives McCain and I have my serious doubts about that. I figure I will still be working on this during the 2012 elections and I shudder to think of all the people who will die for lack of care in the next four years. Its disgusting and immoral. And the worst choice for our economy.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

Sweden is highly socialist, and in most measures of well being they are kicking OUR asses....

Totalitarianism was the problem with most of those countries you mention, not socialism.

Neither a pure socialist nor a pure capitalist society will work with the current state of human development.

Try thinking in ranges of possibilities instead of in black and white, it fits better usually.

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"If you're going to tell people the truth, be funny or they'll kill you." -- Billy Wilder

"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." -- Otto Von Bismark

satv is young and as such has the same problem that afflicts most young people for a time.

He is all about give me, give me , give me I want mine and to hell with everybody else.

It takes a little maturity for kids to start to realize that unless we want to be the kind of immoral society that lets people die in the streets and scoops them up and cremates them that we have to deal rationally and fiscally soundly as a group.

I have hope for satv , he seems smart enough to come out of that self contained thinking he has adopted.

When you know people are really just morally reprehensible, is when they get the age of Nathan forrest or whatever he calls himself, and Teak and are still wanting to let people die so they can say hah, I was better than you . I had insurance and am still alive. Those kind of people are a lost cause and I wish we could rid society of them. But alas that is just a pretty dream.

__________________
Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.