Socialism has failed the world.

wvpeach · #11 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 12:22 PM

Well, don't tell the corporate welfare politicians in washington. Because they do not seem to know all that socialism they hand out to corporations every day is failing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by satv365

Soviet Union: Fell
Communist Mongolia is now a Free Market Economy.
Communist Vietnam has begun a process of freeing up it's economy.
Communist Laos has been encouraging free market practices since the 1980s.
Communist Cuba has already given up on Socialism.
The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia was ousted by it's own people and the economy is getting better, each year.
Communist China has opened up it's market to private investment and free market principles. It's wealth speaks for itself.

All these Nations combined have committed atrocities that have claimed the lives of millions of innocent people. All of them are responsible for stifling political dissenters, forced labor, rape and murder at the hands of their own Governments.

No other Economic Practice in the world has lead to so many needless deaths in the pursuit of Collective Rights and centralized planning of the economy. People starved because of forcing people to grow food on Communal Farms, or lack of innovation at the hands of Soviet industrialists made the standard of living far below that of America and those who benefited from the Marshall Plan and Europe.

I find it unreasonably idiotic that the Nations of the West. A former bastion of Political and Economic Freedom are reverting to Centralization of the Economy and drastically curtailing the practices of Individual Rights and Liberty.

Meanwhile, the former Communist and Socialist Nations are freeing up there respective economies and life gets better, as ours gets worse.

The Free Market Works, and Individual Rights are a necessity for a free society to remain free.

No Socialist Economy has ever worked, ever. Socialism, does not work.

nathanbforrest45 · #12 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 12:37 PM

Peach is older than dirt and like many old people have this mentality of Help me help me I was too stupid to take care of myself so I need the government to steal from the people to help me. I am a grasshopper, you are evil because you took care of yourself without thinking of me.

HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME

Its really really sad to see an old person who thinks the world owes them a living

mulp · #13 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Peach is older than dirt and like many old people have this mentality of Help me help me I was too stupid to take care of myself so I need the government to steal from the people to help me. I am a grasshopper, you are evil because you took care of yourself without thinking of me.

HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME

Its really really sad to see an old person who thinks the world owes them a living

Peach is an older than dirt corporation???

wvpeach · #14 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 12:55 PM

Nathan I am not yet 50 years old . Almost, but not at 50 yet.

As normal you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I own 2 farms , lots of rentals and made a pretty penny when I sold my model home sales center and mortgage company in 2003.

Unlike you I am now retired and am not sitting at work stealing time off my bosses and posting on AWE all day long. Shame on you Nathan.

nathanbforrest45 · #15 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Nathan I am not yet 50 years old . Almost, but not at 50 yet.

As normal you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I own 2 farms , lots of rentals and made a pretty penny when I sold my model home sales center and mortgage company in 2003.

Unlike you I am now retired and am not sitting at work stealing time off my bosses and posting on AWE all day long. Shame on you Nathan.

Well, since I own the business I am stealing from myself. And I don't believe your tales of wealth. If you are wealthy and guilty about that thats fine but socialism in all its forms is stealing. You of all people, being such a fine Christian, should be against stealing.

wvpeach · #16 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 01:14 PM

See that is where you and I part Nathan .

I am a true follower of the teachings of Christ and a nice person. So i don't mind helping people at all.

You on the other hand are not .

nathanbforrest45 · #17 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 01:44 PM

Socialism by its very nature is built on a false premise, i.e. that everyone will automatically do for others. The truth is a socialist system will always revert to the lowest demoninator and the least productivity to sustain life. Why would I do more than I needed to if I were not going to receive anything more for the fruits of my labor. If I produced 10 tons of wheat while my neighbor only produced 5 tons of wheat why would I continue to produce 10 tons of wheat? Human nature flys in the face of socialism.

True capitalism on the other hand says that if I produce 10 tons of wheat I earn the benefits of that labor. It is in my own self interest to produce as much as I can. Perhaps by doing so I end up buying my neighbor's farm and now produce 20 tons of wheat. Because of my own interest there is five additional tons of wheat on the market (after all, the wheat is useless to me as wheat, it only has value because someone else buys it giving me money to buy something else)

Socialism is also immoral in that it requires that I live my life for someone else rather than my self. This in no way requires that I never help others or use my talents to make the world a better place, only that I am able to do so on my terms and not the terms of someone else. This to me is true freedom, not the so called freedom of being a slave for anyone who doesn't want to produce or wants to partake of the unearned.

I know that socialist and collectivist will claim its because I am greedy that I don't want to give my life to the collective. Nothing is further from the truth, I simply am an individual who believes true growth and development, true helping one's neighbor, true economic success for the greatest number can come only from each individual working in his own rational self interest.

Heckler · #18 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Socialism by its very nature is built on a false premise, i.e. that everyone will automatically do for others. The truth is a socialist system will always revert to the lowest demoninator and the least productivity to sustain life. Why would I do more than I needed to if I were not going to receive anything more for the fruits of my labor. If I produced 10 tons of wheat while my neighbor only produced 5 tons of wheat why would I continue to produce 10 tons of wheat? Human nature flys in the face of socialism..

Wrong. Human nature has many elements, it is culture that dictates what is considered highest priority.

Quote:

True capitalism on the other hand says that if I produce 10 tons of wheat I earn the benefits of that labor. It is in my own self interest to produce as much as I can. Perhaps by doing so I end up buying my neighbor's farm and now produce 20 tons of wheat. Because of my own interest there is five additional tons of wheat on the market (after all, the wheat is useless to me as wheat, it only has value because someone else buys it giving me money to buy something else)

Self interest IS a powerful motivator, but to make that one's sole motivation is sad and limits one's growth as a moral being.

Quote:

Socialism is also immoral in that it requires that I live my life for someone else rather than my self. This in no way requires that I never help others or use my talents to make the world a better place, only that I am able to do so on my terms and not the terms of someone else. This to me is true freedom, not the so called freedom of being a slave for anyone who doesn't want to produce or wants to partake of the unearned..

Socialism does not require you to live your life for anyone else, it reminds us that we are actually in this as a community, as well as an individual level.
NOBODY is a self made man. That's a myth. We all work together in many ways.

Quote:

I know that socialist and collectivist will claim its because I am greedy that I don't want to give my life to the collective. Nothing is further from the truth, I simply am an individual who believes true growth and development, true helping one's neighbor, true economic success for the greatest number can come only from each individual working in his own rational self interest.

I wouldn't necessarily make the claim you are greedy, but I think it is a cultural myth that self interest is the only factor we should consider in economics.

The FACT is that many societies are succesful because of incorporating socialist and capitalist elements. Nurturing both the collective and the individual.

It isn't either or.

TakuanSoho · #19 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heckler

Wrong. Human nature has many elements, it is culture that dictates what is considered highest priority.

Socialism does not require you to live your life for anyone else, it reminds us that we are actually in this as a community, as well as an individual level.
NOBODY is a self made man. That's a myth. We all work together in many ways.

The first one is crap, the communists found that wasn't the case.

The people who we are building off of are dead, and for the most part were an extremely small % of the total population. If anything that argument CALLS for capitalism to reward those people who make a difference at the expense of the vast majority who have added little or nothing.

And yes, socialism does require you to live your life for others. If you don't do so, you will be arrested and if you try to escape, killed.

Heckler · #20 (**permalink**) 04-16-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

The first one is crap, the communists found that wasn't the case.

The people who we are building off of are dead, and for the most part were an extremely small % of the total population. If anything that argument CALLS for capitalism to reward those people who make a difference at the expense of the vast majority who have added little or nothing.

And yes, socialism does require you to live your life for others. If you don't do so, you will be arrested and if you try to escape, killed.

You must be referring to the totalitarians, there never have been any communist countries. Totalitarianism breeds massive resentment. Democratic socialism is what I am reffering to. And NO it is NOT crap. Many Asian societies have functioned with a different cultural priority than ours, and succesfully I might add. (it usually scares the crap out of Westerners, but that is because of OUR bias for the individual)

"the vast majority who have added little or nothing"

Just who are you referring to? The average worker?
That's a rather elitist sentiment that denies a huge truth:
Somebody HAS to do the grunt work. It is a HUGE contribution if you enjoy eating, wearing clothes, etc