Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Hoover Dam, you mean the dam that provides water for Southern California? Was that a good stewardship of America's tax dollars?

These services can include education systems, health care systems, pensions for the elderly, unemployment benefits, and public transportation.

Please note it says "can include" not always includes.

Why is it automatically the requirement for the government to provide us with water, sewage and electricity? For many years this was done by private ventures. I bet you know even know who was the first producers of electricity and a provider for homes. Heres a hint, it wasn't the cities or city government.

Private enterprise can and has provided the utilities. At some point, probably during the Socialist Roosevelt Administration utility companies were deemed to be "public servants" and therefore should be controlled by the government. FDR started this mess with the TVA which while it provided electricity to many small communities also took valuable farm land that had been in families for generations. Dandridge TN lost about half of its best bottom land to Douglas Lake, this area is now a depressed area because of that. They damn near flooded the entire city.

I don't care what government does, I don't care how long we have been paying taxes. Not everything is done best by the government. I don't want the government intruding in my life, you apparently want your privacy but are quite willing to have me give up mine.

And you are an arrogant witch. You are condesending like a true boneheaded progressive. God, I hate your type.

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

And they were paid to do so. My point was entirely directed at the argument that "you should support socialism because of the actions of people in the past".

That is a stupid argument. We owe nothing to the past. People in the past did things for their own reasons. If you want to talk about "owing" something to the past, then what we REALLY owe it to are people who invented stuff. The people who moved technology forward so we are not still hunter gatherers, the vast majority contributed little to nothing (in terms of our current debt to them).

Sorry, but that is the case. I apply it to myself as well. Do future generations owe me something? Of course not. They need to do what is best for them.

Yes, my argument is stupid. I freely admit that, it was MEANT to be stupid to show how stupid the argument originally made is.

Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar

The number one source of income for the US in the mid-1800s was cotton. I don't see such income as having been equitably distributed.

Takuan:



Those past people built a foundation upon which all modern wealth is built. If nothing else, we owe them and future Americans at least a preservation of such wealth, rather than indulging in free-lunch economics and environmental policies of cash-in-the-legacy seen by the right recently. Modern republicanism screams, "I got mine; up yours!"

Originally Posted by TakuanSoho

Pay freakin attention, otherwise you just look like a fool.

Originally Posted by Bonzo'sCostar

We should be our brothers keeper, up to a point, because it is in our interest to do so, assuming one can be motivated by nothing else. We are on the same team. An uneducated populace hurts everyone, so we should pay to educate them. We did the Marshall Plan partly out of self-interest: a healthy Europe could buy our stuff. An unhealthy Europe is a drag on everyone. The same principle holds true in dealing with fellow Americans.

Adam Smith's Invisible Hand of self-interest is a wonderful thing. Seeing it as the only thing is simplistic and ... sad.

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Yep I agree your argument is stupid.

Even in communist China young people honor their parents by taking care of them in their old age.

The bible says honor thy Father and mother.

You Soho are starting to show your true colors.

How old are you?

Do you have kids?

Do you have parents?

Have you no honor for the sacrifices of those before you that allowed you to be born into this country as a free man?

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Today we lock them up for the addiction. Why not? In our for profit penal colony society we need those bodies to make LEVI Jeans and Broyhill furniture in the prisons. After all got to keep those prison factories full.

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Exxon Mobile You simple minded lunatic has still never paid for the Exxon Valdez oil spill after all these years. They have appealed this thing in court till most of the people they ruined are dead.

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Ah, well soon all the old folks in florida that can no longer pay $3K a year to flood insure their mobile home will have to sell and make way for more millionaires to buy up those prime beach lots.

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Again Soho , you must not be reading the posts.

I never said Exxon Mobile damaged any homes. Nathan brought Exxon up as a example of a good corporate citizen.

I just pointed out to him a few thousand people along a few hundred miles of coastland who lost their entire way of making a living and saw their towns dry up and people by the dozens commit suicide might disagree with him that EXXON has been a good corporate citizen.

You really should try to read more closely Soho. Or avoid posting while distracted at work or whatever your deal is.

Originally Posted by Dom1

I think we can honor accomplishments and sacrifices from the past but it doesn't meant that we owe people now for what others did in the past.



What does that have to do with me oweing someone for something now? The first member of my family to get to this counrty did so during the Civil War, so they sure as hell didn't benefit from anything. Should I still owe people something? Who determines who owes something and who doesn't? Why do I owe someone anything because of what one of their ancestors did?



Even when she does pay attention she looks like a fool.



"We should be our brothers keeper, up to a point, because it is in our interest to do so"

Then is your argument that we should be our brother's keeper because of self-interest only? If so, then that isn't really being our brother's keeper. it isn't being done for altruistic reasons, but in our own self-interest. Plus, you did mention "up to a point" - and I think that is what is at issue. That is subjective and different people have a different line that they don't think we shoudl cross.




I don't think he said anything about not honoring anyone. Plus, what would that have to do with oweing people now who had nothing to do with our prosperity?



Prisons actually cost us money, they don't make money. Are you really arguing that we are locking people up because we need cheap labor????



Where did you get the idea that most of them are dead?

Besides, Exxon did pay damages, the thing they are fighting now is the billions in punitive damage. I am not saying they shouldn't pay punitive damages, but the punitive damages are not damages to make people 'whole' again, they are only meant to punish Exxon - and they should be punished.

Got anything to back up the assertion that Exxon hasn't paid for the oil spill?



I haven't seen any mobile homes on beachfront property, maybe there is, but not in any place that I have seen.



Again, Exxon paid damages for that. The damages they are fighting are the punitive damages.

Originally Posted by basharp1

From what I've read from your and Teak's post, you'd sell your mother for a buck, give your land to the Chinese and lay down your guns as to not fight for a just cause. My cost anaylisis would suggest we let our parents die, collect their inheritance rather than see they get a just and moral end to their life, ya................I made "free $$$$$" I put it in the depressed housing market and I'll reap great rewards when it returns. International Jewry and all its shame. Traitors!

Originally Posted by Dom1

Then you can't comprehend what you read very well . . . no surprise here.

Why don't you expand on it, Himmler?

Originally Posted by basharp1

Dumb1,

In my AWE world am Hitler, get it straight

Dumbass

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Yes , Simpleton all public water systems in this country for many years have been built with tax payer money.

What do you think all these grants are to improve water systems coming from the government?

To begin with most were funded by state taxes and the feds pitch in with matching grants for expansions and upgrades.

Will somebody tell this simpleton how public utilities work?

Originally Posted by garyw3

all of you who support socialism,have forgotten that our country the u.s.a. did not become great because of socialism,it became great because of (individuals)taking intiative and working hard to make and create products and services that people want,need,and desire. some people in our society have demonized others who make profits on what they as individuals have created to the point that any mention of profit is some how evil.and god forbid you are a walmart,and make billions in profits,never mind the (fact) they employ a very large amount of people not to mention their prices are very affordable,and they also give alot when help is needed.