A very interesting article.....

Virtual and real blur in Eve Online

BBC NEWS | Technology | Virtual and real blur in Eve Online

Virtual worlds are becoming increasingly rich and diverse environments with complex social and economic eco-systems. Science fiction trading game Eve Online is one of the most dynamic worlds, with its own economists helping players get to grips with the intricacies.

"I have been quite surprised by how effective the markets are. The biggest markets for the most basic products, such as minerals, are showing a very high degree of efficiency.

"Eve is a great place to learn business skills, or to sharpen business skills. Players have written to us to say that they have gone on to establish successful businesses after playing Eve."


Pretty fascinating stuff. I would like to hear Southern planter & Satv365's thoughts on this...

Who knows maybe we could even discuss creating a group & go on EVE....

Might be interesting.

__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
- Jack Handy

Not news to me. I have been a 3 year player of EVE. On a bit of a hiatous for now.

I remember when the Devs where accused of helping Band of Brothers.

I started during the Cold War edition, fyi.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

Just came to me.

One of the things I love is the new invention system. It has literally cut the prices of tech2 ships as it has decentralized the Tech2 Production market. Crow interceptors for 7 million isk. Gotta love that.

My only main criticism is I think it would be advantageous for CCP to implement a Stock Market, like immediately. The only thing that they have overlooked that should have been implemented from the get go.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

I just listened to this along the same lines
Edward Castronova on the Exodus to the Virtual World, EconTalk Permanent Podcast Link: Library of Economics and Liberty

My reaction to that is the same as to the BBC article and those who say "just like the real world" is, in the real world few people get to be the CEO or the god or the Emperor or Colonial Master. Instead they are relegated to being cogs in the wheel of the corporate machine if they are lucky. And in the real world, most people get to be the ones doing stoop labor or caring for the children and elderly of their family.

I wonder if anyone would play a game like that if they were randomly assigned their place in the game like people are assigned their place in the world: at random.

Would a player continue to play if he paid to play and join the game and then learned he had Down's Syndrome, or better yet, HIV/AIDS and his mother was dying of AIDS?

Or how about being born black and into slavery in a American colonial setting. Or born a Jew in a Germany like setting circa 1920.

Until a world puts players into real world roles with only 1% of the players having any real control over their lives beyond day to day living, they can hardly be considered realistic.

Yeah, I happen to be a Online Gamer. I get to play on weekends, at least...


Anyways, one of the things that gets me is there is not one game that is truthfully immersionist.

__________________
"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
Thomas Jefferson
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman

Well of course, it's not reality. The point was that because of the free form quality of the world structure created by the EVE online community it mirrors a certain 'limited' aspect of economic & human dynamics going on in the non computer gaming based world.

Games are entertainment. They live or die economically by their entertainment value. If a game is not entertaining it won't sell. Designing a game that mirrors the banalities of life...ain't gonna' sell.

So good luck seeing that, 'Born as a Slave' game coming to your home anytime soon.

__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
- Jack Handy

It's funny I grew kind of tired playing online games. I used to be a fanatic about it during the Quake days. Now I prefer really good immersive story based action games.

One of my favorites & I have played them all is the Half Life series. That is one of the best, most balanced games between story, action & puzzle I have so far experienced.

A fantastic game.

__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
- Jack Handy

Quoting the BBC article:
"Eve is a great place to learn business skills, or to sharpen business skills. Players have written to us to say that they have gone on to establish successful businesses after playing Eve."

Yeah, the problem is that people play games like EVE and listen to the spin about how you can go to college and get the skills to be the boss, and then you go to work.

And guess what, you are told what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. And if you are lucky, when you improvise or say "that's a stupid way to do that job you gave me", someone takes you under their wing and explains the way the real world is, and shows you the ropes.

In a business, some of the people are cripples in one way or another, physically, mentally, or emotionally, and in the real world one deals with them. And one hopes that when you become one of the cripples, and few people escape without at least one, you are accomodated.

The BBC article didn't mention anything about filing lawsuits against those who spilled toxic oil on the beaches destroying the livelihoods of the fishermen. Or trading of carbon credits. Is it realistic to have a world where one's activity doesn't cause harm to others who aren't fully aware of your activity, nor you of their existance?

Look I really respect your ability to draw logic but you are reading WAAAAAY to much into this.

It's about games. There are some interesting dynamics going on in a game that people enjoy playing. It even allows for some non damaging ways to explore social economic dynamics without harming anyone...that's about it.

__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
- Jack Handy

I've been in the computer field for four decades; I have an idea of what is and isn't possible with computer tech. And I've been a scifi fan for more than five decades.

Listen to the econtalk podcast I referenced above; then tell them that they are reading way too much into it.

But for anyone to think that a game like EVE tells you anything about economics beyond intro to microeconomics without all sorts of complexity like the disabled, pollution, oil spills, slavery is, well, most likely a conservative who denies reality in the real world.