I am confused: Please tell me how it works?

Heckler · #**111** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Storman, I understand that, just like Eisenhower did not win WW2 all by himself. However, it was the policies of Reagan at the time that forced the Russians to bankrupt themselves with defense spending.

They had been spending more than they could afford for a long time, in reaction to long term US development of new weapons systems.

Reagan was in office when the final collapse came, but Norman is right, it wasn't JUST Reagan.

Tokenconservative · #**112** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Ummm, nathan, be a little careful here. Reagan deserves some of the credit....no doubt. However, the Cold War was a 45 year battle with many important victories and policies throughout....like the Marshall Plan, the Truman Plan, Korea, Nixon and China, the Arabian Peninsula, and many others. Giving all of the credit to just one individual is a) causing many brave individuals to role in their graves, b) understanding history only the way that you want to.

BTW, I haven't read SecDef Gates's book, yet....but, apparently, he gives Carter a great deal of credit for defeating the Soviets because of his human rights approach. Haven't read it, yet, so I don't know the details...but, plan to.

A step in the right direction, anyhow. Most socialists just shriek "Ronnie Raygun was napping the whole time!!!!"

Tokie

Tokenconservative · #**113** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heckler

They had been spending more than they could afford for a long time, in reaction to long term US development of new weapons systems.

Reagan was in office when the final collapse came, but Norman is right, it wasn't JUST Reagan.

Um...no, actually Clinton was in office, which is the main reason you libs (when not dichotomously bemoaning the fall of the Workers Paradise) claim that he had his pecker out of Monica's mouth long enough to have caused the Soviet Union to collapse.

As always, as a lib, you are wrong.

Again.

Reagan said that was what he was going to do, and despite the best attempts by socialists in Congress to stop him, that's what he did.

No president before him so actively engaged the Soviets as did President Ronald Wilson Reagan, and he is directly responsible for the fall of the worst enemy this nation had ever faced.

Of course, if someone tried to erect a monument to Reagan in DC, inarguably the greatest president since Lincoln, and a true American hero, the left would erupt in outrage and fury (because he defeated your Workers Paradise).

Tokie

StormanNorman · #**114** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

Um...no, actually Clinton was in office, which is the main reason you libs (when not dichotomously bemoaning the fall of the Workers Paradise) claim that he had his pecker out of Monica's mouth long enough to have caused the Soviet Union to collapse.

As always, as a lib, you are wrong.

Umm yeah, Tokie, liberals claim this all the time...

Quote:

Again.

Reagan said that was what he was going to do, and despite the best attempts by socialists in Congress to stop him, that's what he did.

No president before him so actively engaged the Soviets as did President Ronald Wilson Reagan, and he is directly responsible for the fall of the worst enemy this nation had ever faced.

Of course, if someone tried to erect a monument to Reagan in DC, inarguably the greatest president since Lincoln, and a true American hero, the left would erupt in outrage and fury (because he defeated your Workers Paradise).

Tokie

Simplistic and shallow thoughts at best, Tokie....like Crow says....keep token the koolaide, buddy.

Cookie Parker · #**115** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokenconservative

Sure...what, under Clinton? The Clinton tax cuts were actually tax cuts forced on him by the...Republican Congress. It's the same reason he did not sign Kyoto, which he desperately wanted to to please his UN masters: he knew the R-controlled Congress would override him, making him look weaker and more ineffectual than he was.

You can claim Clinton was responsible for the economic boom years of the 90s (and why not? His VP invented the Internets...and romantic love!) but in reality, that was set in motion by....Reagan. Who defeated your heroes, the Soviets, freeing up immense capital and innovation for peacetime growth.

Tokie

Step away from the drug bowl, Tokie, or your fate can be seen in ONE DUCK

here are the facts...

The Great Taxer

Quote:

Over the course of this week we'll be hearing a lot about Ronald Reagan, much of it false. A number of news sources have already proclaimed Mr. Reagan the most popular president of modern times. In fact, though Mr. Reagan was very popular in 1984 and 1985, he spent the latter part of his presidency under the shadow of the Iran-Contra scandal. Bill Clinton had a slightly higher average Gallup approval rating, and a much higher rating during his last two years in office.

We're also sure to hear that Mr. Reagan presided over an unmatched economic boom. Again, not true: the economy grew slightly faster under President Clinton, and, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, the after-tax income of a typical family, adjusted for inflation, rose more than twice as much from 1992 to 2000 as it did from 1980 to 1988.

But Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; he followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with President Reagan's leadership, and what's wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush.

The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Mr. Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Over all, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of G.D.P., the increase was substantially larger than Mr. Clinton's 1993 tax increase.

The contrast with President Bush is obvious. President Reagan, confronted with evidence that his tax cuts were fiscally irresponsible, changed course. President Bush, confronted with similar evidence, has pushed for even more tax cuts.

Mr. Reagan's second tax increase was also motivated by a sense of responsibility — or at least that's the way it seemed at the time. I'm referring to the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance.

For many middle- and low-income families, this tax increase more than undid any gains from Mr. Reagan's income tax cuts. In 1980, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent — but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down.

Nonetheless, there was broad bipartisan support for the payroll tax increase because it was part of a deal. The public was told that the extra revenue would be used to build up a trust fund dedicated to the preservation of Social Security benefits, securing the system's future. Thanks to the 1983 act, current projections show that under current rules, Social Security is good for at least 38 more years.

But George W. Bush has made it clear that he intends to renege on the deal. His officials insist that the trust fund is meaningless — which means that they don't feel bound to honor the implied contract that dedicated the revenue generated by President Reagan's payroll tax increase to paying for future Social Security benefits. Indeed, it's clear from the arithmetic that the only way to sustain President Bush's tax cuts in the long run will be with sharp cuts in both Social Security and Medicare benefits.

I did not and do not approve of President Reagan's economic policies, which saddled the nation with trillions of dollars in debt. And as others will surely point out, some of the foreign policy shenanigans that took place on his watch, notably the Iran-contra scandal, foreshadowed the current debacle in Iraq (which, not coincidentally, involves some of the same actors).

Cookie Parker · #**116** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 03:10 PM

And bin Laden bankrupted Russia and caused its collapse..the same way he's going to bankrupt us...

ONEWHITEDUCK · #**117** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 03:13 PM

Step away from the drug bowl, Tokie, or your fate can be seen in ONE DUCK

GOD SAYS UNLIMITED

COOKIE IS A DRUG WAR CUNT........limited

and a secret tweaker too.........YA METH CUNT

6th sense ;-)

cottonbroker · #**118** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 03:45 PM

Tokie
Cut off their noses huh? You ought to know...........

Tokenconservative · #**119** (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Umm yeah, Tokie, liberals claim this all the time...

Simplistic and shallow thoughts at best, Tokie....like Crow says....keep token the koolaide, buddy.

Of course, a lib would say this...ah, hurrumph...well, yes...while Ronnie Raygun did SAY those things, clearly he had, ahem, nothing whatever do ah, do with the harrumph, unfortunate implosion of the USSR, he ah, just happened to be, harrumh, napping in the Oval Office at the time, just because he forced them to engage us economically at a time when they simply could not, during a protracted war, does not, harrumph, mean he did so on ah, hurrmph..purpose!

Besides, HARRUMPH! the USSR collapsed after Reagan was gone!

Tokie

Tokenconservative · #**120** (**permalink**) 01-10-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookie Parker

Step away from the drug bowl, Tokie, or your fate can be seen in ONE DUCK

here are the facts...

The Great Taxer

Hmmm...where'd all that debt go...after he ended the Cold War, Kooky?

And um...I believe we were talking about who defeated the Soviets, despite the best efforts of their fellow travelers, useful idiots and 5th columnists here in our own country?

Tokie