Thread: Out of the mouths of babes

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

Flanders, I am ALL FOR unification of opinion. If it hasn't become very obvious over my year here at AWE that I have very little interest in alternative opinions, then I'm not sure what it will take to get some of you people to see that.

In my mind the one real necessity for American citizenship should be allegiance to THIS COUNTRY and THIS COUNTRY ALONE. No, JFK we are NOT world citizens. We are AMERICAN citizens. Our allegiance is to this country and this country ALONE. I'm not an Irish-American or a German-American or a Norwegian-American. I'm an AMERICAN. We'd be a lot better off if more people got that idea into their dense fucking heads because without a revival of it this country is doomed to certain failure in a pretty short period of time.

I wouldn't deport Americans who refuse to purchase health insurance. I would look to the Constitution and see that there's no mandate for the government to have any involvement in the topic and LET THEM DIE when they can't get treated because the government I prefer wouldn't force any hospital or clinic to treat them either.

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

I don't see it as an act of protest, wolf. I see it as an act of Treason. I understand it doesn't live up to the Constitutional definition but anyone who will not pledge their life to defending the things this country was founded upon doesn't deserve to be here so far as I'm concerned.

You want hypocricy, look to Washington DC. Look to the people who pledge to defend the Constitution and then use it as toilet paper the moment it becomes inconvenient to their desires to Socialize the entire country.

To The Grinch: Holding an opinion is one thing; forcing it on others is something else. Opinions are like religion when it comes to force; why yours instead of mine?

I don’t doubt your loyalty to this country. From what I’ve read in this thread and others, I think you fail to see that COMPULSORY unification of opinion is the tool the Left is using to destroy the Constitution. The Left’s opinion of the Constitution has morphed into authority; yet there is no authority in the Constitution for HillaryCare II. Nevertheless, socialized medicine will be forced on the country by a few hundred Democrats in Washington.

Compulsory unification of opinion has come to mean that all Americans are forced to accept the opinions of the few in power. In terms everybody can see and understand every American should have healthcare coverage. That is an opinion. Passing legislation to enforce that opinion makes the opinion compulsory.

Even if the opinion about universal healthcare is held by a majority there is no authority in the Constitution for tax dollar funded healthcare or for any welfare state program.

Climate change is an opinion. Environmental legislation is the force that makes the opinion compulsory. The United Nations, and the League of Nations began as opinions.

More than any other opinion, the need for a global government is the opinion that will abolish the country you love as soon as Democrats can figure out how to make it compulsory.

The Eric Hoffer quote following my signature goes directly to the remedy for compulsory unification of opinion. Hoffer says it better than anyone else.

Originally Posted by Flanders

To The Grinch: Holding an opinion is one thing; forcing it on others is something else. Opinions are like religion when it comes to force; why yours instead of mine?

I don’t doubt your loyalty to this country. From what I’ve read in this thread and others, I think you fail to see that COMPULSORY unification of opinion is the tool the Left is using to destroy the Constitution. The Left’s opinion of the Constitution has morphed into authority; yet there is no authority in the Constitution for HillaryCare II. Nevertheless, socialized medicine will be forced on the country by a few hundred Democrats in Washington.

Flanders, I think you're missing something significant... I am a Conservative. I do not believe in much of ANYTHING that the federal government is doing right now. So you can trust that I have no desire to have anything to do with the opinions of the Leftists in this country. The "unified opinion" that the left is using currently is political correctness & class warfare.

I do believe that we need a unified opinion in this country if we are to survive. A unified opinion that states AMERICA FIRST and is based on morals and values. Without that we are doomed.

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

Flanders, I am ALL FOR unification of opinion. If it hasn't become very obvious over my year here at AWE that I have very little interest in alternative opinions, then I'm not sure what it will take to get some of you people to see that.

In my mind the one real necessity for American citizenship should be allegiance to THIS COUNTRY and THIS COUNTRY ALONE. No, JFK we are NOT world citizens. We are AMERICAN citizens. Our allegiance is to this country and this country ALONE. I'm not an Irish-American or a German-American or a Norwegian-American. I'm an AMERICAN. We'd be a lot better off if more people got that idea into their dense fucking heads because without a revival of it this country is doomed to certain failure in a pretty short period of time.

I wouldn't deport Americans who refuse to purchase health insurance. I would look to the Constitution and see that there's no mandate for the government to have any involvement in the topic and LET THEM DIE when they can't get treated because the government I prefer wouldn't force any hospital or clinic to treat them either.

It took me all of two exchanges with you to figure that out. And that's why I like you. You're quite consistent in your beliefs.

As for your views on government healthcare, I agree.

NOTE: The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, Francis Bellamy, in 1892. I’ve always thought that that was odd since it appears to be very patriotic, yet Socialists are the least patriotic of Americans. In addition to despising America’s independence, Socialists will not fight for this country unless it advances socialism.


I found this line funny. When one labels another as the least patriotic they clearly don't understand Patriotism.

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

Nobody should be forced to pledge allegiance to the United States.

no they shouldn't. or put their hand over their heartin front of the flag either for that matter.

Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa

no they shouldn't. or put their hand over their heartin front of the flag either for that matter.

Unless they are Barack Obama, in which case if they don't they are bad.

Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa

no they shouldn't. or put their hand over their heartin front of the flag either for that matter.

True, but ad I pointed out earlier they shoul lose their citizenship and be deported if they choose not to.

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

Nobody should be forced to pledge allegiance to the United States.

Likewise, nobody who refuses to do so should be allowed to remain IN the United States or have American citizenship.

Make your decision and accept the consequences.

Lol, I've never heard such a capricious statement. Have you even read the constitution?

Originally Posted by The_Grinch

I don't see it as an act of protest, wolf. I see it as an act of Treason. I understand it doesn't live up to the Constitutional definition but anyone who will not pledge their life to defending the things this country was founded upon doesn't deserve to be here so far as I'm concerned.

You want hypocricy, look to Washington DC. Look to the people who pledge to defend the Constitution and then use it as toilet paper the moment it becomes inconvenient to their desires to Socialize the entire country.

but it is an act of protest. rather you like it or not.
and if the statement is wrong, its perfectly fine to not lie.

we do not have liberty and justice for all.
not even close.

there is nothing in the constituion about socialism or capitalism, since neither system was talked about in those terms until long after the constituion was written.

we have seen the constitution harmed.
we see it with gay marriage where two groups are being treated differently.

now I cna understand the point of saying - don't stop bieng part of patriotic things to protest the current admin/congress/state governments.
btu the charge that its anything other than a protest is just plain false.

Originally Posted by pugetsoundwa

NOTE: The original Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, Francis Bellamy, in 1892. I’ve always thought that that was odd since it appears to be very patriotic, yet Socialists are the least patriotic of Americans. In addition to despising America’s independence, Socialists will not fight for this country unless it advances socialism.

I found this line funny. When one labels another as the least patriotic they clearly don't understand Patriotism.

To pugetsoundwa: Okay. Let’s compare your understanding to mine.

Here’s mine in an excerpt from a message I posted on March, 7, 2008 titled Patriotism, doublespeak, and no-speak

This observation by Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900):

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

tells me that Mr. Wilde probably did not regard sovereignty as a matter of enlightened self-interest. If there is one subject Dorian Gray’s author was an expert on —— that subject is self-interest. I agree with Wilde insofar as false patriots who wrap themselves in the flag are indeed vicious; primarily vicious because they invariably denounce their country after one of their nation’s moral imperatives fails to save mankind. I hope I don’t come off in that way when I rail about sovereignty. In my mind there is no danger in going too far in defense of sovereignty.

Then we have this from Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784):

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Oscar Wilde’s observation reminded me of my disagreement with Dr. Johnson’s views on the matter. I posted my own view of patriotism before I fully appreciated that sovereignty and patriotism are but distant cousins. In fact, so distant that quislings claim patriotism while betraying sovereignty.

This is what I said five or six years ago:

Patriotism is the first refuge of scoundrels because they always wrap themselves in the flag for profit even when there is no imminent danger to their country. Without exception, that flag becomes a national shroud when charlatans succeed in fooling everyone. Patriotism is the last recourse of a free people who wish to remain free because they try everything else before calling upon patriotism to defend the nation.

I stand by that definition.