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05-18-2008, 12:55 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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05-18-2008, 01:52 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: chapmanville, wv
Posts: 4,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.J. Wilczek
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Even the "Supreme Court" of the United States issued the opinion that this nation was a "Christian Nation" in the fact that all states at the time continued reference to God and Christianity in their STATE CONSTITUTIONS. -- {Justice John Brewer, US Supreme Court, The Church of the Holy Trinity v. The United States, 1892} And the last time that I looked "We the people"/states are the government OR DO YOU as most liberals, flippantly dismiss the 10th article of our Bill of Rights....so by all means.............
Paste all the left wing blog false communist information that you wish, but we hold the evidence in our hands on a daily basis. Ever notice the the words "Annuit Coeptis" engraved upon our currency? The US State Dept., The US Treasury, and the US Mints have determined these words to mean "He (God) has favored our undertakings." And sense Currency is "LEGAL TENDER" everyone must conclude that God indeed was more than considered in drafting our system of Laws, thus the "mandate" to place one's hand upon the Holy Bible in giving testimony before God and Man. BD
Annuit Cœptis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by bluedog; 05-18-2008 at 02:15 PM.
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05-18-2008, 08:45 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak
So you don't find laws restricting the rights of a law abiding segment of society to be unjust. Gee, I'm almost surprised.
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What does being gay have to do with breaking the law? Oh you are gay. That explains it.
__________________
You can never dent spiderwebs
Last edited by Carson; 05-18-2008 at 08:53 PM.
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05-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,154
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I have no issue with gay marriage. It doesn't effect me one way or the other and if gays want to marry then get married. That's just how I feel about it. However, the people of California had voted and had their voices heard that they (& every other state who has voted on the issue) did not support gay marriage. What this amounts to at the end of the day is judicial activism at it's worst. You can't have 4 judges over-riding the will of the people. This is why it is so important to elect politicians who will name judges who follow the rule of law not their own interpretations of the law. I don't know what political affiliation any of these judges are and it doesn't really matter. What matters is that once again the people got screwed.
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05-18-2008, 11:03 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington state
Posts: 3,733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve k
I have no issue with gay marriage. It doesn't effect me one way or the other and if gays want to marry then get married. That's just how I feel about it. However, the people of California had voted and had their voices heard that they (& every other state who has voted on the issue) did not support gay marriage. What this amounts to at the end of the day is judicial activism at it's worst. You can't have 4 judges over-riding the will of the people. This is why it is so important to elect politicians who will name judges who follow the rule of law not their own interpretations of the law. I don't know what political affiliation any of these judges are and it doesn't really matter. What matters is that once again the people got screwed.
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Hi Steve, both for your information and for the information of others that feign outrage over this decision, the Ca. high court has a 6-1 majority of Republican appointees. So, taking that into account and following your logic, I guess we shouldn't elect Republicans because they put judges in place that came down with a decision that you perceive as "judicial activism."
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05-19-2008, 02:31 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
That indeed is a strange statement and certainly not inerrant, falsely assuming that laws based solely on religious doctrines are forbidden. When our entire legal system was drafted upon the principles set forth by Blackstone's theory of law. (Mainly used by the US Supreme Court of the United States well into the 20th century to establish precedent). You profess the same old misdirected ideology from the left that tries to steer people away from the true knowledge of history actual. Our legal system indeed was based upon religion, not only religion but the specific religion found only in the Jeudo-Christian faith. The very first two principles found in Blackstone's Commentaries on the Law are as such. 1) Man shall make NO LAW that directly contradicts any decree from the Creator of nature...aka God. 2) Exception...where the scriptures are silent and such decree can not be found in contradiction the Legislature has scope to draft their ideology of law. For instance man can draft no law that would make murder legal as this is a decree from the Creator however if there is no decree such as considering the import export of cotton etc....the legislature has scope to make law. This history is very easy proven, however it seems the liberal institutions of learning have not taught these principles from the early 1920s, about the same time as the 19th amendment was drafted....Go figure. And as far as the practice of homosexuality, that 3% does not make the practice NORMAL it makes it a deviation form the 97% that is NORMAL and capable of procreation, the driving force behind all nature, and nature indeed has a way of correcting DEVIATION as it mandates that it dies out in the very same generation that gestated this anomaly by making no means of continuing the abnormal bloodline. If nature by physical mandate rejects the practice thereof...why indeed should man accept such NORMAL. It simply is a Mental ailment, and should be addressed as such, and not accepted as normal for indeed it is anything but. BD
Commentaries on the Laws of England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tucker's Blackstone: Contents
Blackstone's Commentaries
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Firstly, I'm not a leftist or a liberal. Merely because I don't agree with you religious right wing nuts doesn't make me a liberal. Equality of marriage for homsoexuals is one of the only things that keep me towards center.
Secondly, Thomas Jefferson himself had quoted in a personal letter to a friend of his that our common laws were indeed based in English Common Laws, as created by the pre-Christian Saxons and little changed by Christianity. It's in the Jefferson Digital Archive of VU, I can dig out the appropiate link if you would like. Our Constitutional rights, however, are not based on English Common Law, sorry.
Third, the Establishment Clause clearly states that neither the states (through Congress) nor the federal level may make laws based on religion only. As Bouvier''s Law Dictionary, 1856 Edition, clearly states as definition number 4 for ESTABLISH "To found, recognize, confirm or admit; as, congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.", and in the defintion for CONGRESS, relevant to this argument, "The senate is composed of two senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof for six years, and each senator has one vote. They represent the states rather than the people, as each state has its equal voice and equal weight in the senate, witliout any regard to the disparity of population, wealth or dimensions"
And lastly, I would much rather base my opinions on a minority of US citizens on the information gathered from a peer review group pf mental professionals, the APA, then on some mere religious doctrine based on a scewed intirpritation of Romans. Feel free to prove the existance of your "Creator" and then you can proceed with further arguments against homosexuals.
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05-19-2008, 02:47 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Yes of course, our legal system nor government has absolutely nothing to do with Religion nor God. That's way it was mandated to place one's hand upon the Holy Scriptures before making sworn testimony, or why "In God We Trust" is scripted upon our "legal tender". That's why we have examples such as these in the recordings of our "HISTORY ACTUAL". 1) "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or to often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." {Patrick Henry} 2) "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." {George Washington} 3) "Our Laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are "EMPHATICALLY" Christian." -- {Supreme Court ruling 1883, Richmond v. Moore, Ill} 4) "We have stacked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have stacked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves...according to the Ten Commandments of God." -- {James Madison}
5) "The principles of all genuine liberty, and of wise laws and administrations are to be drawn form the Bible and sustained by its authority. The man therefore who weakens or destroys the divine authority of that book may be assessory to all public disorders which society is doomed to suffer." -- {Noah Webster}. There are "MANY" more easily proven examples of just how indeed the laws of this land were based upon and drawn upon Blackstone's Theory of Law and Always referenced by even our Supreme Court until just recently in history. Liberal thinking people indeed like to be pragmatic...until it comes to the very pragmatic examples that history offers. But more precisely "WHO WILL COME TO THE AID OF THE WIDOW'S SON?" Can anyone say "FREE MASONS"? The true founders of this nation. BD
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Original Motto, as crafted by our Founders and in place for 174 years on our seal and our money? U Pluribus Unum. The current Motto was shoved past the Establishment Clause in 1956 during the "Red Scare" and McCarthism.
As for your laughable quotes, I see two that are fabricated. Can you guess which two? The rest are taken out of context, and have little to do with the the argument. The Founding Document is quite clear in it's attempt to hold religion and government seperate, while attempting to ensure the religious equality of each and every citizen.
The Tripoli Treaty of 1796, passed unanimously through Congress and signed into US LAW by President Adams, all men either present during, or active in the Founding of this Nation, clearly states in Article 11, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;"
There is no denying that most of our Founders where Christians of one type or another, that is never part of the debate of the religiously neutral country they Foudded. However, they were all, to the last, Enlightened rational thinkers or Evangical Christians who knew damn well the dangers inherent when religion and governemnt mixed. They shed blood to free us from just such a tyranny.
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05-19-2008, 02:56 AM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Even the "Supreme Court" of the United States issued the opinion that this nation was a "Christian Nation" in the fact that all states at the time continued reference to God and Christianity in their STATE CONSTITUTIONS. -- {Justice John Brewer, US Supreme Court, The Church of the Holy Trinity v. The United States, 1892} And the last time that I looked "We the people"/states are the government OR DO YOU as most liberals, flippantly dismiss the 10th article of our Bill of Rights....so by all means.............
Paste all the left wing blog false communist information that you wish, but we hold the evidence in our hands on a daily basis. Ever notice the the words "Annuit Coeptis" engraved upon our currency? The US State Dept., The US Treasury, and the US Mints have determined these words to mean "He (God) has favored our undertakings." And sense Currency is "LEGAL TENDER" everyone must conclude that God indeed was more than considered in drafting our system of Laws, thus the "mandate" to place one's hand upon the Holy Bible in giving testimony before God and Man. BD
Annuit Cœptis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Strange, Wiki-answeers gives the translation as "New World Order" as does several other sources.
The wiki page you listed also does not mention WHEN the governmental departments considered their meanings of that phrase.
And this isn't even mentioning the part of your wiki srouce that states ""Annuit Coeptis" and the other motto on the reverse of the Great Seal, "Novus Ordo Seclorum," can both be traced to lines by the Roman poet Virgil. "Annuit Coeptis" comes from the Aeneid, book IX, line 625, which reads, "Iuppiter omnipotens, audacibus adnue coeptis." It is a prayer by Ascanius, the son of the hero of the story, Aeneas, which translates to, "Jupiter Almighty, favour [my] daring undertakings." According to the ancient state religion of Rome, properly called the Cultus Deorum Romanum, Jupiter was head of the pantheon of Gods."
You bible thumpers are just going to have to realize that your attempted overtaking of this Nation has failed. We have better things to do now, like fix the mess you people have made of this country.
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05-19-2008, 05:29 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 3,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carson
What does being gay have to do with breaking the law? Oh you are gay. That explains it.
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Not that it is any of your business, but no Carson I'm not gay. I just believe that sexual orientation is not a reason to deprive a group of people equal rights under our constitution.
BTW gays are not breaking any law. Thats why I'm surprised you are against them enjoying the same rights you do. Or did I misunderstand the following:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carson
I don't hate laws, I hate unjust laws.
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__________________
If you want change stop electing "liberal: democrats and "radical" Republicans. Find and support true Conservatives; those who believe in fiscal responsibilities, individual accountability, and a smaller government, with less control of your daily life.
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05-19-2008, 08:41 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton
Hi Steve, both for your information and for the information of others that feign outrage over this decision, the Ca. high court has a 6-1 majority of Republican appointees. So, taking that into account and following your logic, I guess we shouldn't elect Republicans because they put judges in place that came down with a decision that you perceive as "judicial activism."
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Maybe you ought to read my post again. I said I didn't care what party affiliation these judges were. Instead of being so defensive about your beloved Democratic Party and all it's supposed to stand for (whatever that is) perhaps you ought to shower and cleanse yourself of the notion that either of these party is actually taking you and your life into any consideration at all. I don't have the party amnesia that you do. I don't care whose right or wrong. I never did. Party affiliation does not fit into my moral spectrum of what's right and wrong. Maybe that's what separates you and I.
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