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03-26-2008, 06:11 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 173
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As I see it, on abortion, the question is not so much one of morality, as, at what point are rights affirmed for a human being? Is it at conception? Birth? Age 18? Age 21? Age 65? Never?
If a fetus becomes a person at birth, then the right to life does not exist prior to that. If it is at conception, then abortion becomes murder. If it is at age 18, then a parent can kill their unruly child with no consequences. If it is never, then we can remove all murder and manslaughter statutes from the books.
As to executions, Federally, they are Constitutional at this time. Individual states are free to address the issue for state crimes of their own accord. The U.S. Constitution merely permits executions, it does not mandate them.
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03-26-2008, 07:05 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,108
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Quote:
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Women tell me abortion is psychologically devastating
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>>>I suppose that's why when a woman has an abortion, she is likely to have 10 more, eh?
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03-26-2008, 07:09 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,108
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Quote:
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The courts had no right to make abortion legal
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>>>Of course they did. That's because the people of this country wanted abortion to be legal.
And the only reason abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution is that the writers of the Constitution never thought the womb police would be attempting to keep them from getting one. And abortions were everywhere in those days.
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03-26-2008, 08:15 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George O Well
>>>Of course they did. That's because the people of this country wanted abortion to be legal...
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And thank God for that...if not for abortions just think how annoying the old fucks who hate kids would be.
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03-26-2008, 09:50 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 3,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Zoidberg
I do not like you twisted christians trying to IMPOSE your 'morality' on society (re. abortion). You twisted christians stand out in front of abortion clinics protesting, when you should be lining-up in front of ORPHANAGES to adopt some of those 'sacred' lives you claim to be championing....there are thousands of unwanted children that could use a good Christian home....but that is not what you offer.
"Catholics, politicians and twisted christians oppose abortion because they KNOW unwanted children are easy targets for pedophiles."
"there is a difference between having convictions and having the COURAGE of your convictions."
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Where is this contempt for the Constitution coming from? The Constitution gives no, no provisions for the prohibition or regulation of Abortions. Not in one sentence of the whole document does it list anything close to condemning or allowing abortions.
It is a State's rights issue, plain and simple.
If you believe in the upholding of Roe vs Wade than you have contempt for Constitutional Law and the proper place for changing the Constitution. Which is the sole authority of the people through Congress to change the Constitution. Not, in fact. The Partisan opinions of a Judge who is not elected...
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"It is the Right of the People to alter or abolish the Government"
Declaration of Independence
"Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself."
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"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."
Milton Friedman
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03-27-2008, 02:41 AM
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Seasoned Veteran
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: currently in Florida
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satv365
Where is this contempt for the Constitution coming from? The Constitution gives no, no provisions for the prohibition or regulation of Abortions. Not in one sentence of the whole document does it list anything close to condemning or allowing abortions.
It is a State's rights issue, plain and simple.
If you believe in the upholding of Roe vs Wade than you have contempt for Constitutional Law and the proper place for changing the Constitution. Which is the sole authority of the people through Congress to change the Constitution. Not, in fact. The Partisan opinions of a Judge who is not elected...
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satv....my contempt is not for the constitution, it is for the twisted christians.
BTW....abortion is a PERSONAL issue (not states or the feds)
I do not support abortion or the hypocrites who "go out onto the streets, wearing 'saccloth and ashes' and turn their backs on Humanity.
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03-29-2008, 12:47 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,557
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"And the only reason abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution is that the writers of the Constitution never thought the womb police would be attempting to keep them from getting one. And abortions were everywhere in those days."
LOL.....um, no. It would not have entered their minds that Mothers would want to kill their Children.
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03-29-2008, 02:17 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I go where the jellyfish are plentiful and the air burns like a whore's rash.
Posts: 253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat's meow
Please review your American history book on the pages that refer to Marbury v Madison and the precedent of judicial review. You really don't know a whole lot about our judicial system and things like stari decisis.
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Nor do you, if you're citing stari decisis in relation to the Constitution as if precedent were the end all, be all of Constitutional Law. Stare decisis holds some weight in the Courts, but is not EVER intended to supercede a judge's ability to interpret the law, most especially the Constitution.
That was the original post: There are no abortion rights in the Constitution.
Quote:
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Stare decisis is usually the wise policy, because in most matters it is more important that the applicable rule of law be settled than that it be settled right.... But in cases involving the Federal Constitution, where correction through legislative action is practically impossible, this Court has often overruled its earlier decisions.... This is strikingly true of cases under the due process clause. Burnet v. Coronado Oil & Gas Co., 285 U.S. 393, 406–407, 410 (1932) (Brandeis, J., dissenting).
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Also, keep in mind the translation of the actual entire phrase stare decisis et non quieta movere: "stand by decisions and do not move that which is quiet".
What century are you living in that the abortion issue is quiet, and should be left sleeping?
__________________
Global Warming is my favorite color.
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03-29-2008, 02:35 PM
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Political Junkie
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: I go where the jellyfish are plentiful and the air burns like a whore's rash.
Posts: 253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Zoidberg
I do not like you twisted christians trying to IMPOSE your 'morality' on society (re. abortion). You twisted christians stand out in front of abortion clinics protesting, when you should be lining-up in front of ORPHANAGES to adopt some of those 'sacred' lives you claim to be championing....there are thousands of unwanted children that could use a good Christian home....but that is not what you offer.
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A) I'm not a Christian. Quit being prejudiced.
B) It is not just my morality being "imposed"...it's a question of whether the law about NOT killing people should or should not be imposed.
C) If you think it's ok to KILL a human for one's convenience, why would you judge a person for not adopting a child? Adoption is BY FAR a much larger inconvenience than merely closing one's legs, and by NOT adopting there is no resultant death, unlike abortion.
Quote:
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"Catholics, politicians and twisted christians oppose abortion because they KNOW unwanted children are easy targets for pedophiles."
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Pffft. Any pedo worth his weight in salt knows orphanages are tough nuts to crack...the Public Schools are the best hunting grounds, second only to browsing your own family tree for likely candidates.
__________________
Global Warming is my favorite color.
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04-14-2008, 12:50 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wow
If anyone was IMPOSING their morality, there would be no abortion clinics.
If speaking out against abortion is seen as IMPOSING morality, is that an admission that abortion is immoral? Women tell me abortion is psychologically devastating........are they lying about it to appear to have morals?
Texas came up with a solution for pedophiles, it's called "Execution by lethal injection".
Americans want change!
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read the studies- most women who have abortions feel typical emotions like saddness, but are generally healthy afterward.
many things that are legal cause some unhappiness (like divorce), but most people don't get severly depressed and are find after the transition period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazed
"And the only reason abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution is that the writers of the Constitution never thought the womb police would be attempting to keep them from getting one. And abortions were everywhere in those days."
LOL.....um, no. It would not have entered their minds that Mothers would want to kill their Children.
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don't talk about things you have no idea about.
in the 1800s there abortion adds in every magazine. they said things like 'guaranteed to cause regularity'.
at that time abortions were legal and morally acceptable is done before 'quickening'. it wasn't until the 1900s that things like that changed.
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Psych Majors are JUNG and HORNEY
Freedom is SEXY
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