**graphic**

wolf_22 · #51 (**permalink**) 02-27-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

ain't nothing wrong with that!
crime and criminals are everyone's problems. they are members of our society, our community, and our nation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowjacket

Criminals (murderers) decide to appoint themselves as judge of who shall live or die based on personal biases, then carry out the killing for themselves.
A government executes murderers only after extremely stringent due process requirements to include numerous appeals, free legal council and numerous opportunities to show lack of guilt. Notice I did not write "innocence" merely lack of proven guilt. A murderer may have commited the crime, but if the government cannot prove so beyond a reasonable doubt, AND while following rigid legal protocols, the killer walks. While a murderer's victim may be truly innocent, a convicted murderer has been proven not to be. With all this in mind, executions are not murder, but government's prerogative to rid their society from irredeemable evil.
its stil taking a life. that is murder. people are still safe with someone spending the rest of their natural life in prison

I would differ with you on this one. Prisons offer education and vocational training, social services, alcohol and substance abuse programs, religious services, motivational programs outreach programs, and much more. Some inmates choose not to participate, others participate to "earn points" with absolutely no sincerity about true rehabilitation, and some are truly sincere. Again, you cannot force sincerity.
I think it depends on the prison. some of them are not very good with any of the things you listed and many of them don't make it a priority. how can those programs work if the people running the prisons scoff at them?

The concept looks good on paper, but in practise it's not always that simple. I would invite you to apply for a job as a correction officer, preferably in a maximum or close security prison. Work there as an officer for a year, then see if any of your opinions have changed. Try being spit on, having urine and feces thrown at you, being assaulted, being verbally abused and facing the occasional inmate armed with a weapon while you have none. Do all this while maintaining your professionalism, doing your duty without bias, and having your every move recorded on tape or scrutinized by investigation panels. Bear in mind that the inmate who threw shit at you or tried to stab you still must be given all the amenities that his status accords him and tomorrow, it will be your job to provide those things in a professional, unbiased manner.

I know how hard it is. I have respect for anyone who does it. my criminology teacher did that job and worked a few other jobs in the justice system. I hear new things 3 days a week from her that are very enlightening.
I have thought of doing counseling work in a prison- obviously if I ever did it wouldn't be for a few more years when I'm more qualified.

36shadow · #52 (**permalink**) 02-27-2008, 09:33 PM

[quote=36shadow;321622]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

So your saying if someone endangered your family you would not shoot and kill that person to protect your family?

No comment wolf?

wolf_22 · #53 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 12:02 AM

[quote=36shadow;322363]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

No comment wolf?

if it was self/family defense of course.
but once they are in jail- I and everyone outside jail are safe.
(I posted this on the last page, you must have skipped over it)

36shadow · #54 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 01:14 AM

[quote=wolf_22;322484]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

if it was self/family defense of course.
but once they are in jail- I and everyone outside jail are safe.
(I posted this on the last page, you must have skipped over it)

See makes no difference it is still ok to kill when you find it ok but not for others to determine they deserve it. I am not like others I think that rape , murder should be punished with the death penalty it would rid our society of these frigen scum of human society and make others thinking of doing it think twice.

Yellowjacket · #55 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

its stil taking a life. that is murder. people are still safe with someone spending the rest of their natural life in prison

I have 3 dead coworkers who would disagree with you if they could, plus a whole lot of injured ones, not to mention dead or injured inmates. They definitely were not "safe". Taking a life is only murder if it is done with malice aforethought. Execution team members hold no grudge against the condemned, they merely perform a most unpleasant duty which their bosses, the taxpayers, voted to authorize and hired them to do.

wolf_22 · #56 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 11:37 PM

[quote=36shadow;322524]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

See makes no difference it is still ok to kill when you find it ok but not for others to determine they deserve it. I am not like others I think that rape , murder should be punished with the death penalty it would rid our society of these frigen scum of human society and make others thinking of doing it think twice.

no that is not what I am saying- I'm saying if it comes down to my life/my family's life or a killer, I will defend me and my own.
self-defense is not murder. not from a moral perspective or from a legal one. self-preservation and protecting of one's own is fairly natural.

those are PEOPLE you are talking about, not scum.
they are humans. they have feelings. they have families.

did you ever see the families of victims against capital punishment?
even emit till's mother was a member of this group.

oceanbreeze · #57 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 11:42 PM

[quote=wolf_22;323529]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

no that is not what I am saying- I'm saying if it comes down to my life/my family's life or a killer, I will defend me and my own.
self-defense is not murder. not from a moral perspective or from a legal one. self-preservation and protecting of one's own is fairly natural.

those are PEOPLE you are talking about, not scum.
they are humans. they have feelings. they have families.

did you ever see the families of victims against capital punishment?
even emit till's mother was a member of this group.

A man who RAPED a 3 month (12 week) old baby isn't SCUM???
WTF defines scum then? Would you like see picture of crime victims. Believe me, it's not pretty.

36shadow · #58 (**permalink**) 02-28-2008, 11:50 PM

[quote=oceanbreeze;323539]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

A man who RAPED a 3 month (12 week) old baby isn't SCUM???
WTF defines scum then? Would you like see picture of crime victims. Believe me, it's not pretty.

A I don't know how it was done Breeze but those are not my words that is what Wolf wrote hell you read any of my post you would see something wrong with that post right off. I say shoot the bastard in the frigen head he is a fucken animal and should be put down period I give a shit what other people think. And quite frankly I question anyone especialy a WOMAN that would give this fucken scum pitty let alone see him as a human being. What kind of mother are they what if it was there kid. I value life more than anyone on this board could know because they don't know me personaly but scum like this I would volunteer to personaly choke the life out of him as he looked me in the eye.

wolf_22 · #59 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 12:19 AM

[quote=36shadow;323546]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

A I don't know how it was done Breeze but those are not my words that is what Wolf wrote hell you read any of my post you would see something wrong with that post right off. I say shoot the bastard in the frigen head he is a fucken animal and should be put down period I give a shit what other people think. And quite frankly I question anyone especialy a WOMAN that would give this fucken scum pitty let alone see him as a human being. What kind of mother are they what if it was there kid. I value life more than anyone on this board could know because they don't know me personaly but scum like this I would volunteer to personaly choke the life out of him as he looked me in the eye.

my gender does not make me into an illogical, revenge driven monster. I love children very much and have no respect or pity for this man. however, I will not sink down to the level of a criminal and support murder. I will not allow someone to make me angry enough to do something immoral and unethical.

[quote=oceanbreeze;323539]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

A man who RAPED a 3 month (12 week) old baby isn't SCUM???
WTF defines scum then? Would you like see picture of crime victims. Believe me, it's not pretty.

I do not need pictures. my sympathy is with the victim.
I don't define people as scum. and I wasn't specificly refering to him- I was talking about all death row inmate or future death row inmates.
just beause of a person is bad doesn't make taking their life from them right.

36shadow · #60 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 12:25 AM

[quote=wolf_22;323573][quote=36shadow;323546]

my gender does not make me into an illogical, revenge driven monster. I love children very much and have no respect or pity for this man. however, I will not sink down to the level of a criminal and support murder. I will not allow someone to make me angry enough to do something immoral and unethical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oceanbreeze

I do not need pictures. my sympathy is with the victim.
I don't define people as scum. and I wasn't specificly refering to him- I was talking about all death row inmate or future death row inmates.
just beause of a person is bad doesn't make taking their life from them right.

That is not true because you said you would kill someone to protect your family if you think killing someone is imoral and beneath you then you would let them kill your family. You can't have it both ways this is the real world with real evil you either stand up to it or you perish. Hope nothing ever happens this bad to you or your family because you will see another side of you.