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12-29-2007, 03:40 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navyvet50
The death penalty is revenge, not justice. A Christian nation would never approve of government sanctioned Murder. Of course we are a Christian nation in name only, so the Death penalty for every criminal, then they can never commit another crime.
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oh boy, we have another one of the soft-skulled,weak thinking left..
Hey do you have anything more than popmedia sources for your opinions?
Is your experience based on public school and low ranking tours of duty?
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12-29-2007, 03:52 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Waiting for Santa
Posts: 17,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherWarrior
oh boy, we have another one of the soft-skulled,weak thinking left..
Hey do you have anything more than popmedia sources for your opinions?
Is your experience based on public school and low ranking tours of duty?
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Does he need a 'source' for his opinion? Only experience that isn't based on public schools is acceptable? Only certain 'high ranking' tours of duty are honorable? Smug bastard.
__________________
 The Lumpster
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12-29-2007, 05:25 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion
Frankly, I have reservations too. If both of us didn't, we would be uncivilized. But .... we are dealing with a rapidly changing society that is no longer living with the courtesies and luxuries of a Victorian society, and is in fact becoming barbaric.
Just take street gangs for example. MS-13, Mexican Mafia, Hoovers, Crips, Bloods, United Aryan Brotherhood, New Nazies, etc. ad nauseum; are all inculcated with the idea that the most violent of their members rise to the highest ranks. Not even the Italian mafia were as brutal as providing someone a Columbian necktie. A simply bullet in the melon and burial in a Jersey swamp was good enough for them.
Today, gangbangers roam our streets and pop one another and innocent civilians with impunity, and the younger they do it, the more "respect" they earn.
They know they won't get the death penalty because between the time of their arrest and incarceration, the average Joe Schmuckavelli has already forgotten about the body in the ground, about which the poor, misunderstood, social miscreant is being prosecuted.
Frankly, if we are to keep the death penalty, IMHO they should be made public. After the trial, examination of the DNA, appeals, etc. and everything runs out, the killer should be strapped to a pool and executed by firing squad. It should be televized and although a great many of the soft and fuzzies will become "upset," the lesson will not be lost on all of the barbarians.
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Well, as Upton points out, these two are perfect candidates. In this case DNA isn't necessary, they have confessed.
Even then, I still have both practical and moral reservations with the death penalty.....the world has always had barbaric elements. Examples can be found in the Victorian or any other era. What separates the civilized from the barbaric is not acting as they do.
Like I said in an earlier post, I would shed no tears for these two...
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12-29-2007, 05:42 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 1,781
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Kinda of ironic to read two of the most adamant "torture is bad" posters calling for the death penalty. One of the arguments used in the appeals are normally how the methods used in the death penalty amount to "torture." But since its just murderers and not al-queda being waterboarded (and living,by the way), I guess its okey-dokey.  But I digress.
Have been a death penalty supporter but I'm not sure it really serves a purpose any more. Here in Fl, study after study has shown its cheaper on the taxpayer to house the criminals for life. The expense of seemingly endless appeals is amazing.
There is no deterrent factor in most cases. If there were more death sentences carried out in a timely manner, then I believe there would be deterrence in SOME cases.
I've never really been one for the "mitigating" circumstances crap. If you kill, you die. Simple. Whether John Doe was killed in a "heinous" manner or just killed, makes no difference. John Doe is just as dead and John Does family is just as devastated.
As far as the "confessions", any good defense attorney will attack them first. If they are somehow admitted, the first appeal will be how the first attorney was negligent by not getting the confessions thrown out.
John Couey confessed to burying his victim while she was still alive. Guess what? Confession is inadmissable.
To all those worried about executing an innocent person, DNA should be taken at every crime scene, from every suspect, and processed immediately.
No match, no case. Match? The Executioner will see you now. Simple.
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12-29-2007, 05:48 PM
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Seasoned Veteran
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosopherWarrior
oh boy, we have another one of the soft-skulled,weak thinking left..
Hey do you have anything more than popmedia sources for your opinions?
Is your experience based on public school and low ranking tours of duty?
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Yes, public school and 20 years military experience. All other western democracies have no death penalty and they have much lower murder rates than the "Christian" USA. Where is your proof that the death penalty is anything other than revenge. My experience is other countries is greater than that of most Americans. Of course, an elitist like yourself, no public school? High ranking tours of duty? may not understand the average American. Nice try at a reply. Are insults your moral high ground? You really do not have to answer that, everyone who can read knows the answer.
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12-29-2007, 06:05 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington state
Posts: 3,733
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Wouldn't be surprised if these killers were using meth. Black garbage bags covering their windows, paranoid, lot of the signs are there.
Neighbors remember couple as paranoid and withdrawn
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12-29-2007, 06:13 PM
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AWE Subscriber
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 6,693
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Boy, that was a disturbing read. I have two young children and couldn't imagine them witnessing such horror before getting shot themselves.
There are no shades of gray in my mind. They are the reason for the death penalty.
I know it seems like hyprocrasy, but what other answer is there in this case?
As for these cases tying up the courts and wasting tons of taxpayer money, we need to change that. It is sickening that people make their living in that way.
__________________
I'm here for the beer and the ball bustin' band.
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12-29-2007, 07:45 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
Kinda of ironic to read two of the most adamant "torture is bad" posters calling for the death penalty. One of the arguments used in the appeals are normally how the methods used in the death penalty amount to "torture." But since its just murderers and not al-queda being waterboarded (and living,by the way), I guess its okey-dokey.  But I digress.
Have been a death penalty supporter but I'm not sure it really serves a purpose any more. Here in Fl, study after study has shown its cheaper on the taxpayer to house the criminals for life. The expense of seemingly endless appeals is amazing.
There is no deterrent factor in most cases. If there were more death sentences carried out in a timely manner, then I believe there would be deterrence in SOME cases.
I've never really been one for the "mitigating" circumstances crap. If you kill, you die. Simple. Whether John Doe was killed in a "heinous" manner or just killed, makes no difference. John Doe is just as dead and John Does family is just as devastated.
As far as the "confessions", any good defense attorney will attack them first. If they are somehow admitted, the first appeal will be how the first attorney was negligent by not getting the confessions thrown out.
John Couey confessed to burying his victim while she was still alive. Guess what? Confession is inadmissable.
To all those worried about executing an innocent person, DNA should be taken at every crime scene, from every suspect, and processed immediately.
No match, no case. Match? The Executioner will see you now. Simple.
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In this particular case, where would they get the DNA?
Prints and ballistics is all they would have, so far as I know...so, bingo, no executioner?
It really isn't simple....I have no sympathy for the murderers, but that does not make it simple....for me anyway, there is a dilemna....
Who are the two posters you are referring to?
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12-30-2007, 05:23 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Stuck in the Middle of Looney Lefties and Radical Righties, USA
Posts: 1,636
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Outside of self-defense, if you take a life, you should immediately forfeit your own right to live and your execution should be carried out directly following the evidence showing that there can be no doubt about your guilt.
__________________
The FBI would not have hired someone with Obama's associations.....but he's okay to be our President!....
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12-30-2007, 05:31 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: on Earth...
Posts: 2,110
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For all those that think execution is good...please explain that to the family's of these people:
Location
Year Convicted
__________________
"People have so manipulated the concept of freedom, that it finally boils down to the right of the stronger and richer to take from the weaker and poorer whatever they have left."
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