Originally Posted by Ghostdog

No Nat I am not saying that, but here is a reality piece of information,
and this is what I am talking about. I know a man who is 50 years old
from Mississippi. This guy can not read or write, but he cries from the
pain of not being able to read or write, and No I am NOT blaming it on
the system. However, the system (Government or Educational) system
can help to change his attitute. Also remember this Nat, we (all) have
our own ways of doing things, but what good is a GED instructor if a
person can't comprehense what is being taught, and you have your
viewpoint...I have mine.
http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/new...reply&p=337258
What you are doing is using your ideas that YOU think is right, and you
are not realizing that IF a person do not want to learn that's on them.
Like you spoke about Sex Education (Babies making Babies). I do not
care what anyone say about a young lady having a baby. She will do
whatever she wants to do, and you can stick education down her
throat she will still do what she wants to do.

There is NO two people alike in this world, and we can not label
everyone as thinking the same way. So you think that the Government
is helping by cutting programs, cutting SSI or Welfare for those who
can't do no better? There is many people who wants to do what is
right, but they can't because of a mental or physical problem, and do
you think that they should suffer the blame?

Having the opportunitie is one thing, but not having a chance is another
thing, and instead of criticizing them why not help them? I am out in the
streets three days a week dealing with the homeless, unemployement,
and others, and I see that its not for everyone to have the great skills
you have Nat.

Originally Posted by Recolligere

That depends on what you mean by "position": I work my ass off, pay my taxes, and earn everything I have, so I believe I have a right to get pissed when someone who has the ability to work but refuses to do so, asks me for the money I earned. I don't do handouts.

Now, as I stated, there are people who end up in a position less desirable to most and it's not their fault -- for them I would gladly donate my time and money to aid them, but there has to be some kind of trade off. I don't help those who don't help themselves.

"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime." (OR something like that)

And thank you! I actually enjoy being here.

Originally Posted by IHNR

Would you like a list of the financial institution with their hand out this month? It's long and there is a rumor that A MAJOR INSTITUTION is about to fail if the fed doesn't keep printing money and thus deflating the dollar.

So you argument that homeless people are sucking up your precious tax money (you probably don't make enough to even register on the radar) is going to bail out some company with a CEO (who is never held accountable) who is making 4 million a year and yet is a complete failure. This list is long...

So what is worse?

Originally Posted by IHNR

Would you like a list of the financial institution with their hand out this month? It's long and there is a rumor that A MAJOR INSTITUTION is about to fail if the fed doesn't keep printing money and thus deflating the dollar.

So you argument that homeless people are sucking up your precious tax money (you probably don't make enough to even register on the radar) is going to bail out some company with a CEO (who is never held accountable) who is making 4 million a year and yet is a complete failure. This list is long...

So what is worse?

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

I don't believe anyone on this thread is saying that homelessness does not exist or that we should simply allow the homeless to die in the street. My point was that the recent spate of foreclosures because of the so called subprime market is not forcing people into homelessness. That is absurd on its face. The homeowner had enough money to pay the lower mortgage payment, they may even have enough income to pay a higher mortgage but because of the housing market they cannot be refinanced nor can they pay off the entire first mortgage because the housing market will not allow the house to be sold for the amount of money owed. This leads to foreclosure of that specific house under those specific circumstances. This does not preclude the possibility that the homeowner cannot rent an apartment or house for an affordable rate in the same area they lived. To think otherwise flys in the face of reason.

Can anyone postulate a reasonable explanation that a high energy business executive making well above average income would, because of the loss of his job, become a homeless person eating out of garbage cans in the United States today? That too is an unreasonable scenerio. Perhaps his lifestyle would change drastically but is it reasonable to assume someone, male or female, who has enough intelligence, drive, and experience to be a manager would suddenly become unable to function? No, I don't think that it is. If such a situation does in fact exist there are more factors involved than the mere loss of a job. ( I once met a man who told me he had been forced to living on the streets because after he retired he didn't realize he had to pay income tax on his pension and the IRS took everything he owned and left him with no home, no car, no belongings, and only 10 percent of his pension, but that was our government doing this, not the loss of a job - even if he had a job the IRS would have taken his wages).

I believe the homeless are almost exclusively those with mental or substance abuse issues. I know you left wingers will claim exceptions to this statement and I acknowledge, like the man who was forced on the street by the IRS, there are those who don't fit that catagory. To merely provide them with housing will not change the root cause of their homelessness. Many of the homeless should be institutionalized for thier own benefit. Many will never become productive members of society and probably should be permanantly institutionized.

The poor and the homeless will always be among us, there will always be those who for what ever reason cannot cope in the world. For those we should give assistance but we should understand its not the fault of some malevolent entity that if only we would nationalize the steel industry for example would cease forcing normal people into homelessness.

Originally Posted by YOU PIGEONS

man you sound normal to me. "SHALLOW" hows that SUV running? kinda mental on the gas hay. me i think we should nationalize insanity, then we would all have a home. ya think?

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Thank you for the post Ghost. But why do you assume that if the government is not doing something it won't get done? The program I spoke of earlier was sponsered by the YWCA, a private organization. it was the government that made it unworkable. Private groups (charity, church or in some cases businesses because they know an educated employee is a better employee) will create programs to help the poor and uneducated. However, if someone won't take advantage of opportunites then what can you do? You cannot force them to become educated. Are we then simply required to clothe and feed them for the rest of their lives? I know that if a man were 50 years old and for whatever reason never learned to read or write he could very well believe he could never learn. However, if the right person or group (and I honestly believe church groups are the best for this because they instill in a person a sense of self worth, a belief that God loves them so they should love themselves as well) helps a person ANYBODY can learn to be productive at any age. Will that 50 year old become president of GM? Of course not but he could become a store manager if he really worked at it.

Its all a matter of believing in one's self. Why are you successful at what you do? Because every morning you get up and KNOW that you can do the things that you do. You believe in YOU. Everyone deserves to have that opportunity but you know as well as I do that not everyone will take that when it comes to them.

Then the real question remains: What do you do with a person who is just so sorry they would rather sit at home and let someone else feed and clothe thier children?

Originally Posted by Ghostdog

I am NOT assuming I know for a fact that Government funding housing
is about to be disbanded. So YOU tell me where are the people who
this will effect go? Along with my main job I am a Housing/Tenants Rights
Activist, and this is happening all over the nation.

Its happening in Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, Atlanta, Detroit, New York,
and what I suggest to you is to get involve with H.U.D. Go research
their site at Homes and Communities - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Your government is doing alots of underminded
bullshit, and people just don't realize it.