Originally Posted by justme

I think anybody that goes out very often probably has met people like those you and nathan describe. Working throughout the country I saw many of them and heard some amazing stories.
Homeless seem to congregate around large truck stops and when they saw my truck, they knew I was a "bed-bugger" that might need some help. I've hired them and had some that were excellent and some not so much.
In SanAntonio, Tx a scraggly looking guy approached me with a story about how hungry he was...could I spare a few bucks. I told him I wouldn't just give him cash but I would be glad to pay for any meal he wanted in the restaurant. Using his convoluted logic, he knew there was a steak dinner for about 15 bucks so why didn't I just give him 15 bucks and we'd be even.
I then told him I would pay him $25 to clean out my trailer...I had just made a delivery and I had furniture pads to fold...that and sweeping the trailer would take about 2 hours. He got insulted and told me about his bad back.
I finally told him I couldn't help him and went inside. He was still there harassing drivers when I left.
Here at home, I was helping a buddy of mine work on his car. One night when leaving, there was a young guy with one leg standing in the median. His sign said "Homeless Vet." It was after Desert Storm and the guy was about the right age. I gave him a few bucks. He saw my cigarettes and asked for one. I gave him the rest of the pack and drove away.
The next night, he was there again. Same sign but he had a new story. I listened as he told me he had JUST got into town and how a gang of black guys had jumped him and took all his money.
I told him it was a sad, but great story and if I hadn't seen him the night before, it might have worked. Knowing he was busted, he asked for a cigarette again. I told him I didn't have any. He pointed to the pack sitting on the dash and told me I did. I told him, "no. You misunderstood me. I meant I didn't have any for YOU."
I left to his curses. Didn't feel bad about it at all.

Originally Posted by justme

I simply pointed out to nathan that I did not believe you used homelessness as a slam against vets, as he seemed to think. Pardon me for supporting you.

Homelessness in America

Homelessness in America

The two links above show where cookie, in her infinite wisdom, blames Bush specifically and the government, which in cookie speak , is Bush.

Originally Posted by satv365

Why don't you call it shell shock? Then perhaps people would donate more to charities to help veterans with that affliction.

You just used probably one of the worst forms of Political Correctness. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder's very name. Made church's and Charities all but abandon providing psychiatric care to these men.


Of course you could just let them all die...


Or pass awaaaaaaayy......

Originally Posted by crowonapost

Shell shock interesting question. I watched a program the other night about how that phrase came about. It was after WWI & it was THE disorder from men trapped in trenches being bombarded day & night from artillery. No one had seen anything like this until after that war. It was a documentary on the history of Artillery. Shell Shock is a truly 20th century disorder. & a clear succinct description of what causes it. The problem as you've just kind of indicated is that after successive wars it became a catch all phrase for more complicated sets of post war freak outs basically. Think about it. We tell ourselves that when going to war G.I. Joe boy must be tough as nails & impervious to all. In reality though we are social creatures & modern war does a lot to rip us up inside. No matter how hard we suppress it. Taking massive amounts of human life, seeing every kind of human destruction echoes inside a mans mind for the rest of their life. Might call that gore shock.

I guess today one could call it IED shock but of course it's not so simple anymore. One of the great things we have today is our modern medical miracles. Our ability to keep men & women alive when in every past war this would not happen. What we have though are men & women physically ripped apart. Brains rung like bells from IED explosions & in general really fucked up physically. In the past they would have just died. Now they stay alive but in pieces. Really awful extensive reconstructive surgery pieces. This WILL fuck with most peoples minds. What the fuck do yo call that post dismemberment from IED brain shake shock?

I don't know.

Maybe it's gore & dismemberment shock.

Then add to that your wife divorcing you while half your face is missing & they have to reconstruct your tongue with parts of your arm. I didn't make that up by the way.

Cuz' that just ain't funny.

Originally Posted by justme

Sam may be fluffing the numbers some for dramatic effect (surprise!) but I don't think she's putting homelessness on the vets as a slam.
There have been articles here recently detailing some homeless vet stories and how they came to be that way. Some showed how the vets had triumphed and some how they were still struggling. The causes were varied: One guys wife had left him while he was in Iraq and on return home, his house had been foreclosed and he literally had no where to go; another guy became addicted to pain killers and ended up robbing a pharmacy, the first step in his downward spiral.
The stories also show how there is help available to these vets yet some are too proud to ask for it. Some don't know its available.
Lumping all the homeless together as being worthless or as deserving of what they have is as silly as going the other way and saying all homeless are that way BECAUSE of the government and specifically, GWB.
Some are there due to misfortune and some are there due to their own doing. Either way, they are still human beings and to treat them as trash is simply wrong.

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

I have no doubt that some of the homeless are actually vets. I also have no doubt that if asked many of the homeless will tell you they are vets (they will tell you anything if they think it will mean a handout). I am not specifically picking on Sam, she is nothing more than a useful idiot in the cause of socialism and collectivism. However, since the end of the Vietnam war the constant message is that veterans are drug users, irrational, homeless, and dysfunctional. I find that constant message to be as highly offensive as any black person would be when they are constantly barraged with "statistics" regarding the number of black criminals, welfare recepients, etc.

Originally Posted by Heckler

Yeah, well, sometimes the truth hurts...sugar coating it does nothing to resolve the real issues these people face, whether they are vets or not.

The intensity of modern warfare has created things that never existed before, as Crow eloquently pointed out.

It isn't a slam to the vet, it is just reality.

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

I am sorry but I must disagree with both of your statements. One, warfare is warfare. Do you think the storming of the beaches at Normandy were less traumatic than Iraq? What about Gettysburg? The Battle of Hastings with men bashing each others brains in up close and personal, was that less gruesome? No, war is war, death is death. The only difference is the size of the armies invovled which are actually getting smaller not larger, there were approximately 500,000 troops in country in Vietnam, Iraq has about half that number

The veterans are being used to promote an agenda, an agenda of anti war, anti capitalism and anti conservatism. These homeless vets are not homeless because they are veterans, they are homeless because of their own bad choices of using drugs or alcohol or from being mentally unstaple to begin with.

If you can believe the statistics approximately 25% of the HOMELESS claim to be veterans. It is estimated that there are approximately 500,000 homeless at any given moment nationwide. This means, if the statistics are correct, 125,000 vets are homeless. Compared to the millions of veterans in this country that number is insignificant as a group. It is a travesty that veterans are constantly portrayed as bums or worse.

No, Sam is using. once again, veterans as a means to an end.