...Now that I got the three groups attention, and there's no forum itself for such topics...

Topic: Big Bang vs. Alternative Cosmology Theories, with sidebar on how politics in the sciences have made the status quo a literal religion itself, with the dogma included.

Why: Because the Big Bang "Standard Model of Cosmology" has stifled scientific thought, and played politics with it (like trying to pass a theory off as a fact, then be hypocritical about it that the "Intelligent Design" folks stole a page from their own playbook). The politics of these higher sciences impacts how students in Physics, Biology and Astronomy are taught, especially how they try to strongarm funding for alternative studies that question the "Big Bang" with scientific evidence that turns them literally into a supernova.

Rules: Drive-bys aren't welcome. If you can't add to the debate don't waltz in (this is especially true of our resident mental patient, Whiteducky). I have no preference if it's a Creationist; ID; Big Banger; or alternative theorists, just that the topic will be debated based on the scientific method, not scripture or tin-foil.

There's too many rules in other forum debates online, for example...

The death of ATM (Against the Mainstream) - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum

as each forum tries to put their particular spin on the topic (just the name of that forum alone isn't friendly), and I want a more neutral area to debate the topics that doesn't side with any camp (that little ember of Libertarianism in me).

Round up your buddies; links; books; notes and speeches. It's about time a forum has a long-term debate that includes the most defiant "Big Bang" advocates, and all parties critical of the "Big Bang".

Let's have an "Singularity" together!

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So Chris
Are you Fred Hoyle or Georges Lemaitre?
Are you Arthur Eddington with a belief that "The notion of a beginning is repugnant" or are you a more modern scientist who believes that the universe is ever expanding and therefore must have had a point of beginning?

Why does this seem to upset you so much that you must be so stidently opposed to the "Big Bang" as is noted in the tone of your post?

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Big bang, baby.

I'll take up the challenge... especially if I get to take on Forrest.

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

Go ahead, state your position

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Hopefully, I'm not barging in on an intense debate.

But, are there any links to other alternative theories?

I know this thread is becoming crowded but I think we may find room for you here. Try this for starters

The Origins of Life & the Universe: Science Reference Guide, Library of Congress

BTW, just to be clear the Big Bang Theory is not a religious position but rather an "expanding univese" explanation rather than the "static" or "steady state" picture. Big Bang does not explain "how" merely "what" much like a blue print of an automobile does not identify the creator of the blue print but rather what steps are taken to end up with the finished product.

I don't know where the original poster is coming from with her position. I believe she has the concept of the Big Bang confused with the religious dogma of creationism or intelligent design.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Well I guess I can start by saying their is One true God who is the creator of all.

Doesn't mean that God didn't allow for a big bang at some point.

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Real Christians Don't Support Preemptive War



Life is not about counting the number of breaths you take , life is about the moments that take your breath away.

In 1951 Jesuit Priest and the original proponent of an expanding universe (Big Bang) Georges Lemaitre told Pope Pius XII that he was unwilling to make an association between "Big Bang" and creationism. It is certainly much easier to accept Big Bang if you are a Christian than the steady state model but Big Bang is not inherently religious in nature.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

More of a Halton Arp type, so I'm a milder form of Hoyle and Gold.

But seriously, the reason why I want a good cosmological debate isn't so much to argue the points to infinity (many threads online already beat that horse to death), but wanting all three sides to discuss their points efficiently; as either the Big Bang is discussed solely upon "scientific" grounds or religiously. Believe there's more room at the table than just black and white thinking between the poles. Interested in reading/discussing more than just statistics/equations | bible/scripture, like why with all the tools mankind has he still can't answer the basics like, "where DID I come from and why?"

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