I don't give a fucking shit about what the thread was about... all threads (Like Man) evolve so this is what we are talking about now.

So what do you believe in Nathan? Do you believe in god? Do you believe in "age" of the universe, do you believe in EVOLUTION?

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

That comes as a surprise, Nazi not understanding something.

Ummm . . . Nazi, it was you who took on some 'challenge', I would think if you took it up you would know what it is.

The problem Dom is that IHNR doesn't really know his ass from a hole in the ground. Had he looked at the first posting he would have realized this thread was posted by someone (not myself) that thought the Big Bang Theory was semi religious in nature and that I was disagreeing with them. I really think his responses show a complete lack of awareness of the world around him other than his internal hatred and contempt for everyone other than himself.

His statement that all thread evolve is assinine. That would mean that no thread has any meaning beyond what the next posting makes it. If I begin a thread discussing a recipe for chocolate ice cream in his feeble mind that can "evolve" into a discussion of racial discrimination in the resturant business.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

I believe the earth was not created in six 24 hour earth days. There is far too much evidence to the contrary. I don't think this necessarily negates the Bible since we don't know what constitutes a "day" in a non universe. How does one measure time when nothing exist?

I believe that God created the Universe. I don't believe it only took 144 earth based hours. I believe that God is the Master Mason and the guiding force behind all science. I also believe we will never understand everything about the function of the universe, to do so would make us God and that we will never be.

If you read my post rather than "evolving" you would have seen that I already answered those questions. Now, dimbulb, you issued the "challange" early on in this discussion yet you have made no statements beyond issues that have nothing to do with the actual thread. Care to tell us whay you believe at this given instant. Failure to do so will point out to God and Man that you are truly an ignorant puss with no concept of anything beyond your own petty hatreds. The only posting acceptable from you by any rational thinking humanoid on this planet right now is to tell us what your beliefs are concerning the big bang and how specifically those differ from my stated beliefs in this thread, not what you have determined actually exist in my mind but what I have actually stated.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Ok... well from your comments I would assume that you are a Mason. I would ask you then if we have (unlike you stated) proof and laws that govern the universe and can see with both radio and light (Hubble) the actual light from the big bang, then my friend you are seeing the face of God... and besides the grand connection between quantum and planetary physics, we know and understand what the universe was and looked like at 0.0001 second until today. We can see creation... and it wasn't from some old long-haired white guy with a long white beard who did it.

And... It’s a slap in the face to mankind to think that we have evolved from some say as far back as 3 million years ago from painting elk on cave walls to unlocking the secrets of the universe. It makes me insane when religion constantly rebuffs science yet what has religion taught us about the universe? Nothing. Unless you happen to walk by a particularly smart bush that just happens to be burning.

So I challenge your religion against my science. You say you believe in science, yet you are one of these guys who take the easy way out of the search for knowledge and paint over the holes in our knowledge with the all too common phrase "because god created it that way." If we had stuck to that kind of thinking we would still be living in those caves.

So basically in this thread I've done two things; first I've proven that no matter how badly you wanted it to not be true...you have to admit, I'm a pretty smart guy, secondly I'm not sure what you want argue in this thread. You are right, I and quick to judge you and figure from your past posts that you are a certain kind of man who thinks a certain way. I'm probably right on most things, but if we happen to agree on some things then great.

__________________
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

I have said before that I believe the Big Bang Theory (one of many) is merely the blueprint of the creation of the universe and does not give us the identity of the Master Craftsman who created it all. Yes I am a Mason, a Speculative Mason. I believe the Universe was created by God as the Master Builder. I have no preconcieved notion of his appearence except from the Biblical quote that we were created in his image and likeness. I am not exactly sure what that means. I also believe that God, not Man, is responsible for the creation of morals (as opposed to mores and culture) and true right and wrong. I believe that since the Bible was written or inspired by God there is nothing of error in the words. There may be issues of interpretation as in the story of Genesis but the Bible is correct in all things.

To me, to believe that the universe sprang from nothingness takes as large a leap of faith as a belief in a supreme being who put it all motion. Neither of us will ever know the truth as long as we are alive. After we are dead we will either know there is a Supreme God or we will know nothing, it will all be gone. Personally, I find it less terrifying that there is a Supreme God.

I believe the physics of the "Big Bang" accurately describes and explains how planets and elements came into being once the KABOOM happened but does not explain the why it happened. That is the realm of religion. I was raised Catholic and spent some time with the Jesuits and therefore do not see a disconnect between science and religion. I also believe that the more answers we find the more questions follow and we will NEVER know all the answers. Furthermore I believe that 100 years from now there will in all likelihood be still another theory of the origin of the Universe, equally supported by scientific research, equally debated and shoved down the throats of all.

As for evolution, I am not sure that I do believe in evolution as you believe in evolution, that a single cell lead to man. There are no direct links anywhere, there are no proofs that any specific lower order became a higher order, only that as a higher order developed the lower order disappeared. Do I believe God waved a majic wand and poof there were all the different creatures? In a way yes but not necessarily in the twinkling of an eye.

What can you show the world that is evolving today? What higher order than man is on the horizon?

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Well, I watched a doc. on fundamental christians and their mega-churches, which have now theaters with good christian movies, they also are attracting young member with concerts (I do have to say that their music has gotten better) Some of these churches hold 30,000 people and the serums are broadcasted to millions. It was ironic that Ted Haggerty, who WAS the leader of one of these mega-churches in Colorado, ended the doc with the charges that he is gay, hooked on meth and paid for male prostitutes with church money.

Ok, here is the thing, I see you point, it's warm and fuzzy to think that there is a better place we are going to once we die. It's much easier, but for a person like me it's hard to be a skeptic, but see this world and the last thing I see in it is a loving god. But I really don't have a problem with christians, I know you are going to try to slaughter me on that comment but the ONLY time I have issues with religion and that includes jews and muslims as well, but I it becomes my problem when they try to infiltrate and control this government and currently they do...

This type of condition is EXACTLY what the founders warned against. So believe what you want... if you don't want your wife or daughter to have an abortion then don't have one, if you don't believe in being gay then don't be gay, otherwise don't push your religion on me through your legislation. My personal body has been at issue before the pen of George Bush and both times your religion has confined me to this chair a little longer.

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

— Benjamin Franklin

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.

John Adams from the " Treaty of Tripoly, article 11

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Pretty smart guy! You have to be kidding. You even admit your ignorance when it was you who said "I will take up the challenge" and then ask what it is! Pretty smart guy my ass . . . you want to be, but fall hopelessly short of the mark.

This has nothing to do with the Big Bang, nothing. It merely a screed against evangelical Christians, of which I am not a member

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy

Also, as I have said numerous times before one does not chose to be gay in my opinion. I did not wake up one morning and say "Hey, I think I will be heterosexual" I believe the same is true for gays.

As far as your statement regarding abortions is concerned I find that particulair line of argument to be fatally flawed. To me, since I believe life begins at conception, I think there is no difference between that statement (If you don't believe in abortion don't have one)and the equally absurd "if you don't believe in slavery don't own one. If, as I sincerely believe, an abortion is the taking of a life then its not an issue of choice but or morals. If its evil to own another human, and I believe that it is, how much worse is it to take a life for no reason?

Finally, regarding your cherished belief that it is only because of George Bush that you cannot walk, that is as stupid a statement as any you have made. George Bush did not stop stem cell research, he did not outlaw it. He merely refused to use government funds for the financing of that research. The first drug company that perfects the growth of damaged cells through stem cells will make a fortune the likes of which we have never seen before. If stem cell research were near a breakthrough don't you think the drug companies would go all out to be the first on the market? Millions of women die from breast cancer each year, millions more of men from prostate cancer, should all research for cures come from government contributions?

Regardless, this thread is not about George Bush, Stem Cells, Homosexual preachers or the quality of Christian music. Its about the Big Bang Theory. Stay on track if you would.

BTW, do you celebrate Christmas?

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy