Are you and the right to life crowd prepared to take personal responsibility for these 40 million lives you will save?

Actually I have already adopted twice. A boy from a mother who was going to have an abortion and recently a beautiful girl from South Korea. Ryan and Katie have been the most rewarding part of my 27 yrs of life. Although I can't do it all. It takes many loving people.

The most important thing is we need to remove abortion as an option. Since 1973, when abortion was federally legalized, child abuse has not decreased, child neglect has not decreased, and homicide against children has not decreased. Abortion has not solved these problems, but it very well may be feeding the ideology that leads to them. I know this is hard for most liberals to accept but we need to teach our kids personal responsibilty so that the idea of abortion hardly even comes up or is even seen as a reliable option. That alone could decrease abortions drastically. Will any of the women who do abort illegally ever die? It's possible (there are women who die each year from legal abortions), but the number of deaths will be no where near the 1.3 million people who are currently dying every year from legal abortions in the U.S. There are about 3,000 abortions performed every day 97% are due to "convenience" or "unwantedness". That means about 3% of all abortions are because the health of the mother.

That 40 million is already dead so we won't have to take care of them anyway. If abortion were illegal and we taught our children personal responability we wouldn't need to worry taking care of that many children anyway.

Adoption.com also reports that nearly 40% of American adults, or 81.5 million people, have considered adopting a child, and that a 1998 survey found that about 2 million women aged 18 to 44 had sought to adopt a child. Yes there is enough.

Your question might be than why aren't all these babies being adopted? The Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), the research arm of Planned Parenthood, estimates that there were 1.31 million abortions performed in the U.S. in the year 2000. The National Coalition of Abortion Providers tells us that the average 1st trimester abortion costs between $350-$650. The Women's Medical Center estimates that a 2nd trimester abortion costs up to $3000 (with the price increasing the further along the pregnancy goes). If we take a $500 average for 1st trimester abortions and use a $3000 average for 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions, here's what we get: $590 million are spent each year on first trimester abortions and $393 million are spent on late term abortions. That means that each year in the U.S., the abortion industry brings in approximately $983 million through their abortion services alone. If you add in the $250 million that Planned Parenthood (America's largest abortion provider) receives in government grants and contracts every year, the annual dollar amount moves well past 1 billion.

When Planned Parenthood argues that they're working hard to reduce the frequency of abortion, the fact remains that their financial livelihood is built on abortion. Planned Parenthood, then, is just like the big tobacco companies. Does anyone really believe that tobacco companies want people to stop smoking? Does anyone really believe that Planned Parenthood wants people to stop having abortions? Follow the money.

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"Oh great and powerful funk!"-OkhamsRazor
"One would be insane to debate with you. You are another great debator."- somtfs

Everyone who supported slavery was free.
Everyone who supports abortion was born.
And that my friend is how oppression works.

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Sorry, got side tracked... I'll be back to continue asap...

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

If abortion is such a big issue with some of you in this thread, then why not take a stab at it (no pun intended) and adopt someone?

Can I see a show of hands of people in this forum that have adopted someone else?

***Raises hand***

I adopted my parents when I was three weeks old.

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

I wouldn't mind adopting a child, however the problem is that so many times, the children are given back to their parents or by the time they are able to be adopted, they are older and have a slew of problems. The courts idea is to keep families together, I have seen sitiuations where the parent is abusive and the child is still placed back in the home with the birth parents.

I got pregnant in the 60's when abortion was illegal. Not only was it illegal, but there was very little information about birth control. I had a friend who asked a doctor about birth control pills and not only did the doctor refuse to give it to her, he lectured her about her morals.

I got caught and got pregnant. I don't want any lectures about abstinence. It takes two people to make choices about sex, not just the woman.

Now, what were my choices? Find someone who could loan me money to go to Puerto Rico for an abortion, the only place it was legal? Go to a backstreet butcher doctor? Try it myself with a coat hanger? Or give up my baby for adoption. Of course, I couldn't keep the baby because at that time in our history, not only didn't we have access to birth control, we also couldn't bring a baby home without complete society ostricism. We young women couldn't win no matter what we chose. Either die or give up your baby or be rich enough to travel out of the country for an abortion.

I didn't even want to consider an abortion, regardless of how it could be done. I couldn't imagine getting rid of the life within me, so I decided to give up my child for adoption. I was lucky, I was able to contact my son 26 years later and become good friends with him and his adopted family. Then, he died 8 years later in a freak accident.

However, after all of this, I absolutely believe that the right to an abortion is the absolute right of any woman. Everyone's circumstances are different and having been in the situation I was in, I know that it is important to save the life of a woman because if abortion is again illegal, many, many, many women will die. Abortion won't go away if it is illegal.

The abortions have increased only slightly since the time when it was illegal. At that time there were 1.2million abortions a year. Our population has doubled since then and there are only about 1.4million abortions now (more or less, the last I checked.) The difference is that women are living, not dying in back alleys.

So there, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Your story and you are sticking to it...even if it is a lie?

Prior to Roe, the largest number of illegal abortions per year was in 1961 and that number was about 210,000. The lowest number was about 35,000 in 1950. The average mean prior to Roe was less than 100,000. The huge numbers of women who died as a result of illegal abortions is a lie as well. The founder of NRAL has admitted that the numbers were grossly exagerated because they needed an image of carnage so that the public would support their cause.

So the number of abortions has actually gone from less than 100,000 to nearly 1.5 million per year. Does the truth affect your position in any way, or would you be just as comfortable if it were 10 million human beings being killed without legal consequence each and every year for no better reason than convenience?

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

Did he admit this voluntarily? Or was he forced to admit that there were no hard numbers (not enough reported cases) for to support his claim.

the FACT is, that when something such as this is illegal (and at the time quite shameful, as it should be now in a lot of cases), people don't report it. They do it very, very quietly. How do you count what is hidden?

Here's the bottom line for me. You are trying to legislate morality. This also applies to many other areas of law besides abortion. In my view it's the job of the social and spiritual leaders to to knit together a cohesive population of right thinking and right acting people. If folks were still being raised by principled example, perhaps the religious community wouldn't have so many of the flock wandering astray. Or is it ... if the religious and social structure (the village) has failed enough that folks are raised without principled example.

There appears to be the same problem with both views on this issue. In the end, people are going to do it anyway if they don't posses the moral responsibility of their actions. You can't legislate that. In the end, young girls and tiny humans die.

IMHO, the enormous amounts of energy and money wasted on fighting this battle at the government level would be exponentially better used to minister to our villages. That's not to say you need to go forth and introduce people to your religion at every opportunity, but simply serve the less fortunate.

The "less fortunate". This is a term that has become far too narrow in my opinion. It has nothing to do with economics, and everything to do with a persons spiritual state. in the circumstance of abortion, ANY woman facing that decision is in a less fortunate state.

I think we can all minister to our villages by being good people, friends and neighbors. Not necessarily in a strictly religious sense, but in a spirit of humanity sense as well. The only way to rid ourselves of the social ills that plague us is to make sure that that we have a strong social/community structure.

I'm sorry, but I get pretty cheesed off when I see protesters outside clinics heckling woman as they go in. Not in defense of the choice these women have made. Not because it's pouring salt in an already sore wound. But because you are there criticizing a decision that has already been made, instead of out in your community trying to intervene before the circumstances that lead to abortion as a choice can take place.

How many people are involved in the abortion issue. I mean actively involved? 1 million? 5 million? 10 million? More? How much money, time and resources are poured into protesting, lobbyists, political campaigns, advertising and the like? $10 million? $100 million?

IMHO, it's not the addition of abortions clinics or well armed gangs or drugs that is the source of these ills. It's the absence of community, the disappearing neighborhood block parties, civic groups, safe public areas, and reasons to turn off the TV and get out of the house. It's the loss of kick the can and American heroes that are remembered for more than 15 minutes.

This fix and so many others will never be attained at the national level. It's a community thing. A family thing. A personal thing.

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall

He (Bernard Nathanson) admitted it because it was not true. He knew the real numbers but they didn't create an image that would grab national attention so he lied. He and his organization repeated the lie until it was percieved as the truth.

I might ask pro choicers how they count what is hidden.

The bottom line is that all law legislates morality. It is wrong to steal so we make law that prohibits stealing. It is wrong to kill so we make law that prohibits killing and the list goes on and on. Suggesting that this case, and this case alone is an instance of legislating morality is laughable.

Unless, of course, you are advocating that we eliminate all laws with regard to one human being killing another. If you aren't, then you are just another hypocrit trying to make a case where none exists.

People are going to always commit crimes. Are you suggesting that we strike from the books any law concerning any crime that continues to happen after it becomes illegal?

This is not a religious issue for me. I never introuduce religion into it. This is a human rights issue and your attempt to make it religious in nature is no more than a needless introduction of a strawman to the issue.

Killing another human being is never a reasonable response to one's lack of fortune

Agreed, but no such structure is ever going to be possible as long as human life is devalued to the point that one human being may kill another human being without legal consequence for no better reason than convenience.

A decision to kill another human being for no better reason than convenience.

So far, the entirety of your argument is no more than a series of strawmen that serve no purpose other than to detract from the true issue. That is, abortion is one human being killing another human being without legal consequence for no better reason than convenience.
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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

Thank you for completely missing and obfuscating every point I was making. If you didn't get the intention of the post, I'm sorry. What you characterized my intentions to be is incorrect. Your tunnel vision is not my problem.

I'm not suggesting the removal of any laws, you inferred that. MY OPINION is that the TRUE issue here is the failing of religion after 2000 years to teach and hold fast the morals that you claim we should have. You also sidestep the entire assertion that your numbers and resources would be much more effective in prevention that in prosecuting people.

But you just keep throwing away those valuable resources, while children and young women and society as a whole suffers. Answer my question... how many people are involved with this? How much money? Can you do that without all the vitriol?

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S.O.S. ------ United We Stand, Divided We Fall