For or against abortion?

PaleRider · #**361** (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyse wyfe

A zygote is not yet a product, it is not completed. A product is "something produced", and a zygote is not yet produced. It is in the process of becoming a product. You are correct that word games cannot make a thing into something other than it is, and no matter how hard you try, no matter what words you use, the differences between unborn and born remain.

Of course it is. Egg and sperm alone continue to be egg and sperm respectively. Put them together and a zygote is the product. I have never argued that unborns are mature human beings, but the are human beings none the less.

I have science on my side and have provided all manner that states explicitly that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved. All you have been able to provide is your own uneducated opinion and it simply doesn't cut it in the face of credible science that says without reservation that you are wrong.

The differences between infants and toddlers and toddlers and adolescents and adolescents and adults still reamin as well, but all are equally human beings. None is more human than the other by virtue of being older or more mature.

Let me know when you find some credible science that states that unborns are not living human beings at any stage of development. Till then, your medical and scientific opinions amount to nothing more than quackery.

My Winter Storm · #**362** (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

And here, you reveal your basic dishonesty in this debate. You claim that you bellieve that whatever the law says is correct and yet, you clearly believe that the law in your state that makes abortion illegal is unjust and incorrect. You are clearly hypocritical in this manner.

I am not hypocritical. What the law says about abortion in my State is fact - it is a fact that abortion is illegal in my State. It is a fact that the majority of women in my State who abort are having illegal abortions. I am not going to deny that fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

And the death penalty isn't murder because the one being executed has been given his constitutional and legal right to trial and appeal after appeal. Murder is defined as one human being killing another human being with intent. Murder has nothing to do with the workings of due process.

You said it yourself 'Murder is defined as one human being killing another human being with intent'. The man who injects the chemicals into someones arm is intending to kill that person, are they not? Therefore, you MUST consider the death penalty to be murder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Prove it. Prove that being separated from your mother is what makes you a human being or admit that it is nothing more than an article of faith for you.

The law says it, not me. Science can say what it likes, but science doesn't make the law - the law makes itself.

funktacular · #**363** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 12:32 AM

The law says it, not me. Science can say what it likes, but science doesn't make the law - the law makes itself.[/quote]

I guess you would be one of the ones who sat aside as African Americans were being worked like beast in the fields. I guess you would of been one of the ones who had no problem kicking out Native Americans to die on the Trail of Tears so people could steal thier land. Because they were not "humans" according to some unjust incorrect law. If this truly your postion so be it, as foolish as it may be. As history has showed us this postion is actually nothing new. Just hope there aren't many out there like you. So if the day comes when you aren't considered human by some unjust law. There still might someone that isn't as foolish to help you. History does indeed repeat itself.

First They Came for the Jews
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

My Winter Storm · #**364** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 12:50 AM

Clearly you know nothing about the law.

funktacular · #**365** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

Clearly you know nothing about the law.

Clearly you know nothing.

My Winter Storm · #**366** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funktacular

Clearly you know nothing.

If the law said once that black people were not human beings, the law was correct at the time.
When the law changed, and blacks were considered people, the law was correct again.

It's quite easy, you know.

PaleRider · #**367** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

You said it yourself 'Murder is defined as one human being killing another human being with intent'. The man who injects the chemicals into someones arm is intending to kill that person, are they not? Therefore, you MUST consider the death penalty to be murder.

Are you being deliberately obutse, or trying to be cute, or do you really have such a small understanding of government? The man who injects the condemned isn't one man, he represents society at large. He hasn't taken it upon himself to rid society of the condemned and done so without allowing the man his constitutional right of due process. He is fulfilling the constitutional right of due process.

If your answer was an attempt to be cute, it failed. If you really have such a shallow understanding of law and justice, I recommend that you do some research to add some depth to your knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

The law says it, not me. Science can say what it likes, but science doesn't make the law - the law makes itself.

Science is the only source qualified to say whether or not separation is what makes one a human being. The law do any manner of things with the facts, but it can not change them. You can not get accurate biological information from the law and someone who looks to the law for accurate biological information either isn't smart enough to know were to look for the facts, or is running away from the facts. You tell me which describes you.

PaleRider · #**368** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

Clearly you know nothing about the law.

Actually, it is you who has demonstrated over and over a complete misunderstanding of the law, in addition to next to no knowledge at all in the sciences. You have demonstrated yourself to be a flat earther. You operate from a position of faith and in your mind, you need no justification for your position because you will hold it without regard to fact. Your position is your faith.

Lexi · #**369** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Science is the only source qualified to say whether or not separation is what makes one a human being. .

As you've said so many times on here it's the law that dictates how we live our lives and the law clearly states that abortion is legal so there is no crime committed when a woman has an abortion.

You call me a liar all the time when in reality it's you that's the liar when you call a woman a murderer for having an abortion. The law clearly states that she has not committed a crime.

And the next time you call me an idiot child you better look in the mirror because that's exactly what's looking back at you.

PaleRider · #**370** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

]If the law said once that black people were not human beings, the law was correct at the time.

Maybe you don't know the meaning of the words you use. You have shown that to be the case occasionally. Correct - adj - right and not wrong; in agreement with the true facts. When the law said that black people were not human beings, it was mose certainly not in agreement with the true facts. The true fact is that black people were indeed human beings and the law which said that they weren't was wrong. There was nothing correct about it. The law became correct when it said that black people were human beings because at that point the law was in agreement with the true facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

When the law changed, and blacks were considered people, the law was correct again.

If this is really what you believe, and how your mind works, then there is no point in continuing the debate. You are completely irrational and it is evident that you are impervious to logic. Your argument has the same qualities as the arguments of a red faced bible thumper. You believe what you believe and will attempt to defend it without regard to rationality, logic or truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Winter Storm

It's quite easy, you know.

Apparently it is not easy for you. Not easy at all. If in your mind when the law said that blacks were not human beings it was correct even though you freely admit that in reality they were human beings then clearly it isn't easy for you. Both can not be true or correct. Either blacks were human beings in which case the law was incorrect and wrong or the law was correct in which case, if we do a DNA test on a black slave, the DNA will show that he indeed was not a human being.