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04-29-2008, 08:47 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J04miller
Did they also have in mind people destined for internet chat rooms?
I never heard this..........interesting.
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In Jonah Goldberg's book "Liberal Fascism" he outlines her connection with the eugenics movement. He does provide footnotes and bibiliography for his writings. Wikapedia also has an article on her.
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04-29-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J04miller
Did they also have in mind people destined for internet chat rooms?
I never heard this..........interesting.
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Even more interesting in that WEB DuBois favored it for uneducated black people as well. Saw them pulling down the rest of the blacks.
The progressive movement in the early part of the century is full of this thought, they believed they were merely applying the latest in scientific principles to race . This explains why eugenics (and communism/fascism) was so popular among these people as well. WWII, the Holocaust, and MAD helped to disabuse most of them about the advantages of pure "progressivism", though they still have managed to completely corrupt liberalism.
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04-29-2008, 10:33 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Even more interesting in that WEB DuBois favored it for uneducated black people as well. Saw them pulling down the rest of the blacks.
The progressive movement in the early part of the century is full of this thought, they believed they were merely applying the latest in scientific principles to race . This explains why eugenics (and communism/fascism) was so popular among these people as well. WWII, the Holocaust, and MAD helped to disabuse most of them about the advantages of pure "progressivism", though they still have managed to completely corrupt liberalism.
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But did Sanger specifically target skin color or racial groups, or certain "conditions"? The article posted here recommended barring from immigration and sterilization of "feebleminded, idiots, morons, insane, syphilitic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred by the immigration laws of 1924."
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04-29-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
But did Sanger specifically target skin color or racial groups, or certain "conditions"? The article posted here recommended barring from immigration and sterilization of "feebleminded, idiots, morons, insane, syphilitic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred by the immigration laws of 1924."
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Hard to determine, in that it is such a messy subject. Personally, given what I know of the progressive movement, they certainly did believe that certain races were superior to others, but at the same time it was possible for individuals within the races to be greatly superior to their averages. So some whites, even WASPs could be inferior, and some blacks could be superior. But at the same time they certainly believed that the average black was far inferior to the average white (who in turn was slightly inferior to the average WASP). And since on average this is true, on average the targeting would be geared more towards one skin color than another.
Which way you want to take this is up to you, I would put it down as a soft form of racism.
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04-29-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Hard to determine, in that it is such a messy subject. Personally, given what I know of the progressive movement, they certainly did believe that certain races were superior to others, but at the same time it was possible for individuals within the races to be greatly superior to their averages. So some whites, even WASPs could be inferior, and some blacks could be superior. But at the same time they certainly believed that the average black was far inferior to the average white (who in turn was slightly inferior to the average WASP). And since on average this is true, on average the targeting would be geared more towards one skin color than another.
Which way you want to take this is up to you, I would put it down as a soft form of racism.
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Yes, I would, too. But the point is, she wasn't a raving, genocidal racist. Her focus seemed more on the conditions of potential parents, as they were defined at the time, that might adversely affect the potential children. And that poverty could not be cured with more mouths to feed.
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04-29-2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
Yes, I would, too. But the point is, she wasn't a raving, genocidal racist. Her focus seemed more on the conditions of potential parents, as they were defined at the time, that might adversely affect the potential children. And that poverty could not be cured with more mouths to feed.
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Well, not sure how much credit she gets for that. She wasn't a "raver", so being a raving, genocidal racist wasn't her cup of tea. However at the same time, she most certainly wanted to drastically cut down the number of blacks in the country for their "genetic inferiority" and there are quotes that do so that she did not have a high opinion of blacks. And in that she actually helped to put the plan into practice raises a interesting question: which is more dangerous, the raving racist, or the reasonable sounding racist?
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04-29-2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakuanSoho
Well, not sure how much credit she gets for that. She wasn't a "raver", so being a raving, genocidal racist wasn't her cup of tea. However at the same time, she most certainly wanted to drastically cut down the number of blacks in the country for their "genetic inferiority" and there are quotes that do so that she did not have a high opinion of blacks. And in that she actually helped to put the plan into practice raises a interesting question: which is more dangerous, the raving racist, or the reasonable sounding racist?
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Put what plan into practice? Birth control? Voluntary sterilization (granted, she wanted to give incentives to those "undesirables")?
I don't consider her a dangerous racist at all, except by association of those who would further her ideas to suit the view that skin color=fitness to breed.
I wouldn't say that I've done exhaustive research, but I've yet to see that she felt that the country should limit the number of black people.
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04-29-2008, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
Put what plan into practice? Birth control? Voluntary sterilization (granted, she wanted to give incentives to those "undesirables")?
I don't consider her a dangerous racist at all, except by association of those who would further her ideas to suit the view that skin color=fitness to breed.
I wouldn't say that I've done exhaustive research, but I've yet to see that she felt that the country should limit the number of black people.
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She was a featured speaker at a Klan rally in New York in the 20's. I get called a racist because of my screen name, Surely being a featured speaker would carry more weight than just a screen name don't you think?
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04-29-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricechickie
Put what plan into practice? Birth control? Voluntary sterilization (granted, she wanted to give incentives to those "undesirables")?
I don't consider her a dangerous racist at all, except by association of those who would further her ideas to suit the view that skin color=fitness to breed.
I wouldn't say that I've done exhaustive research, but I've yet to see that she felt that the country should limit the number of black people.
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Voluntary sterilization soon became involuntary (because, well they were feeble minded and couldn't decide on their own) and continued until the 70's.
Do some more reading. Limiting undesirables was certainly one of her arguments, but I will leave it up to you to interpret her intent.
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04-29-2008, 11:29 AM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45
She was a featured speaker at a Klan rally in New York in the 20's. I get called a racist because of my screen name, Surely being a featured speaker would carry more weight than just a screen name don't you think?
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I don't know.
What did she say?
Maybe she was trying to convince THEM to stop breeding!
(of course, I'm kidding, but I really do want to know what she said to that Klan rally)
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