wow, how depressing are you?

clearly, man has flown. man has been to space. and the process that got us there was one of re-description. We have to come up with metaphors like airplanes, and gravity, and altitude. Do you mean to tell me that man kind didn't invent the airplane using language?

look, i know how slow you are, but assuredly you're missing the big picture. I am NOT talking about peter fucking pan! You can't fly just by thinking about things that make you happy. This isn't about the limitlessness of our minds, i never said ANYTHING like that that could POSSIBLE result in this interpretation except for YOUR poor understanding of the concept of "reality". You assume "reality", this magical concept, is a set of restrictions, or rules. You're a fool. The restrictions are ONLY in our descriptions. This concept of reality, by your vary definition, is outside of the grasps of any human, yet you and pale love to claim to "know" reality. What THE FUCK are you talking about? Can you justify that? I mean, i know you can't, thats a rhetorical questions. Its impossible to know reality because its an INTANGIBLE CONCEPT! Though, all of this must seem quite intangible to you.

look, you attack me, thats one thing, but what I can't get is why you started a thread inspired directly by my argument and then fucked it all up and failed horribly? WHY?!

Look, you stupid little bubblehead, this thread WAS NOT INSPIRED BY ANY REMARK YOU MADE BECAUSE I DIDN'T READ YOUR FREAKING REMARKS TO THE MIGHTY ONE and it's fucked up then it was you and the Mighty One that fucked it up so get over yourself you sick little puppy.

And you attacked me before I said anything to you. You come to the abortion threads and condemn abortion and then go to other ones and put things like this on.. (link below)

Agnostics are pussies

seeing as you quoted and replied to my shit, i know you read it, and seeing at that happened RIGHT BEFORE you posted this shit, it made me think you wanted to attempt this argument on your own. noble endeavor, seeing as you havent done it yet, at least ive got a shit load of experience arguing philosophical points like these.

The only ones of yours I read are the ones like these one and two liners, the others bore me to death so never read them.

Hypocrite...

Agnostics are pussies

Airplanes, Gliders, Spaceships, Balloons all conform to reality. I think you are mistaken the fact that people have been mistaken about what reality is with the fact that there is a reality. Acknowledging reality is not the same as saying that our version of it has to be the truth.

And while you may not admit to this you certainly know it, because I don't see you jumping off a skyscraper without a parachute or hang-glider or something you know will hold you up.

Now I do agree in a philosophical context it is impossible to "know reality", however one can have a better, more definitive grasp of reality compared to others (and the philosophical distinction is for all real purposes pointless). The best of these people become great scientists and inventors. These people all know there is a reality, and it helps to guide them to discover their inventions or theories that transforms the way the rest of us think.

No the question is how much can you change reality without using something made by other people. You know how much can you change reality by yourself?

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You can never dent spiderwebs

You are not changing "reality", you are changing peoples definition of it.

Suburban has a point from a philosophical point of view (though I do think that he is taking it too far in his arguments), we as humans can never know "reality" because our perceptions will always get in our way, however this is something different from saying that because of this there is no reality.

For instance, just because we discovered an atom is not "indivisible" doesn't mean that atoms don't exist.

no that doesn't make sense, only a fool would assert such a thing

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You can never dent spiderwebs

I doubt anyone would argue that, but if you take a look under the hood of the argument of those who deny that there is a reality (and not just that our perspective of it is wrong), that is pretty much the logic of it.