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04-02-2008, 09:19 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
Posts: 4,995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themaniacster
To answer this question, you need to know wether the fetus is alive and human.
Not whether some person considers it alive.
But whether it is alive, by definition. Since a fetus has cells and DNA, does breath, uses energy, and every other thing that makes it definably alive does exist in a fetus.
Now is a fetus Human?
A fetus has Human DNA, making it Human.
Therefor since a fetus is alive and human, it does have the right to live by our constitution.
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Actually that is a silly question .
the supreme court has answered the question all ready they have said .....NO.
If you ask a question of constitutional law the way this country handles it is to let the supreme court decide. The supreme court has made that decision . Only the supreme court can change it now.
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04-02-2008, 10:07 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themaniacster
To answer this question, you need to know wether the fetus is alive and human.
Not whether some person considers it alive.
But whether it is alive, by definition. Since a fetus has cells and DNA, does breath, uses energy, and every other thing that makes it definably alive does exist in a fetus.
Now is a fetus Human?
A fetus has Human DNA, making it Human.
Therefor since a fetus is alive and human, it does have the right to live by our constitution.
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Ut oh, you are using facts.
Liberals do not recognize facts, unless they fit their agenda. 
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04-02-2008, 10:09 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Location: The Republic of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvpeach
Actually that is a silly question .
the supreme court has answered the question all ready they have said .....NO.
If you ask a question of constitutional law the way this country handles it is to let the supreme court decide. The supreme court has made that decision . Only the supreme court can change it now.
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The American people can change it.
The Supreme Court are employees of the American people.
The American majority is the boss. 
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04-02-2008, 10:28 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sachem
I have given scientific proof. If you deny that, fine, that is your right.
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What scientific proof? Where is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachem
As for real and present danger, anyone attempting to force me to carry a fetus, is one.
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Sorry, once again, you beg the question. Logical fallacy doesn't constitute valid argument sachem. 1 in 12,000 pregnancies results in the death or permanant injury to the mother. Try going into a bad neighborhood, killing someone, and claiming that they represented a 1 in 12,000 chance of harming or injuring you and let me know how that works out for you in court. Unless you can substantiate a claim, it is worthless and the claim that a pregnancy represents a real and present danger to you is one that you can not substantiate so therefore it is invalid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachem
You are correct, that just because you reside inside a thing or depend upon a thing, you are not NECESSARILY a part of that thing, but, sometimes you are. A placenta, without me attached, is nothing to that fetus.
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None the less, if you do a DNA analysis of the cells in the placenta, you will find that it does not belong to, and is not part of your body. Basic developmental biology sachem. The fact that you don't know it doesn't alter it in the least.
__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi
"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma
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04-02-2008, 10:32 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvpeach
the supreme court has answered the question all ready they have said .....NO.
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How many scientists were on that court? How many doctors? By what education did they claim the right to determine what is and is not a human being? The court also said once upon a time that blacks were not human beings. Were blacks not, in reality, human beings because the court said that they weren't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachem
If you ask a question of constitutional law the way this country handles it is to let the supreme court decide. The supreme court has made that decision . Only the supreme court can change it now.
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The court has reversed itself some 200 times now and roe will be just one more example. Maybe you haven't noticed that the court is now conservative in nature and more likely to actually refer to the constitution rather than invent rights to suit their agenda. They have already banned late term abortion and in doing so have invited states to further restrict abortion which will, in turn, bring more lawsuits before them so that they can further restrict abortion.
The writing is on the wall with regard to abortion on demand and denial of the fact doesn't change the fact.
__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi
"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma
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04-02-2008, 12:55 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wow
The American people can change it.
The Supreme Court are employees of the American people.
The American majority is the boss. 
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Yes the American people can change that. Not that it will stop abortions because women were having abortions in the days when the bible was written.
But what does that have to do with the thread and topic at hand?
The title of this thread is Does the fetus have the right to live by constitution?
I answered the supreme court has answered that question and said no.
Change is not the topic the topic is the law and the constitution. The supreme court is the legal system by which we interpret laws and they have the final say as far as laws go to interpreting the constitution.
So the simple truth is like it or not.
Does the fetus have the right to live by constitution?
No the supreme court has said they do not.
If you want to talk about change that is another subject all together.
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04-02-2008, 12:58 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
What scientific proof? Where is it?
Sorry, once again, you beg the question. Logical fallacy doesn't constitute valid argument sachem. 1 in 12,000 pregnancies results in the death or permanant injury to the mother. Try going into a bad neighborhood, killing someone, and claiming that they represented a 1 in 12,000 chance of harming or injuring you and let me know how that works out for you in court. Unless you can substantiate a claim, it is worthless and the claim that a pregnancy represents a real and present danger to you is one that you can not substantiate so therefore it is invalid.
None the less, if you do a DNA analysis of the cells in the placenta, you will find that it does not belong to, and is not part of your body. Basic developmental biology sachem. The fact that you don't know it doesn't alter it in the least.
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Pale, denying the biology of the connection between the woman and the fetus does not make it any less real. The DNA in the placenta could belong to the family dog, the biological fact is that the placenta connects meto the fetus. Like it or not a woman has a right to control her body.Your attempt to couch a philisophical/religious argument in terms of 'science' fools no one.Your post about the changing of the SC, shows that you have no argument. You are correct that things may change. Those of us who are pro choice will be working to keep abortion legal and safe.
__________________
"Sweet Caroline, Good times never seemed so good
I've been inclined To believe they never would". -Neil Diamond
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04-02-2008, 12:58 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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a fact you seem to forget palerider is medical science can put human DNA in skin cells and multiple them , they grow and grow and grow to make new skin. That does not mean they are a human.
Medical science is all so putting human DNA in animals . That does not make them human either.
what makes us human is the soul we have sent from God that comes at the moment we are born and breath according to the bible and leaves when we take our last breath. That is what makes us human not our DNA which is only about biological flesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
What scientific proof? Where is it?
Sorry, once again, you beg the question. Logical fallacy doesn't constitute valid argument sachem. 1 in 12,000 pregnancies results in the death or permanant injury to the mother. Try going into a bad neighborhood, killing someone, and claiming that they represented a 1 in 12,000 chance of harming or injuring you and let me know how that works out for you in court. Unless you can substantiate a claim, it is worthless and the claim that a pregnancy represents a real and present danger to you is one that you can not substantiate so therefore it is invalid.
None the less, if you do a DNA analysis of the cells in the placenta, you will find that it does not belong to, and is not part of your body. Basic developmental biology sachem. The fact that you don't know it doesn't alter it in the least.
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04-02-2008, 05:36 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
This goes to the application of philosophical concepts wolf. You can't make the child into something other than what it is by altering your description of it or applying ideas to it. It is what it is and it is a living human being. You do not have the right to kill another human being unless that human being represents a real and immenent threat to your life.
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its not alive and its not fully human.
it has no brain and no functional cognitive skills. there is a soul/body disconnect.
and no one has the right to disrupt someone else's life.
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04-02-2008, 07:07 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_22
its not alive and its not fully human.
it has no brain and no functional cognitive skills. there is a soul/body disconnect.
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A "soul body disconnect" is a philosophical concept wolf. You can't prove such a thing even exists. It is just words that you put together to express an idea of something that might or might not be. If you can't prove it, then you can't rightly argue that it is a valid reason do deny a human being the right to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_22
and no one has the right to disrupt someone else's life.
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You have no right to kill someone who disrupts your life. Try it some time and tell the judge that you killed them because they disrupted your life. Let me know how it works out for you in court.
__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi
"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma
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