A human being is a biological entity. We come into being when fertilization is complete. The offspring of two human beings can be nothing other than a human being. Our body is our biological self and nothing more. When we are zygotes and are only one cell, that is our biological body. Your talk of minds and souls is nothing more than you attempting to change a thing into something else by expressing your particular ideas of what it is. You have already admitted that you can't really change it by talking about it and yet, you are still trying.

Again, the value we place on people has nothing to do with their rights. A person who will kill a police officer is one who is a danger to all of society as they clearly have no respect for society. The punishment isn't necessarily harsher though. People get the death penalty for killing civillians and how much more harshly can you be punished.

But they don't make a decision that this person is more valuable as a human being and therefore has more of a right to treatment and therefore to live. They make their decision based on the severity of the condition of the patient. A homeless person who is bleeding from a severed artery will take priority over a businessman who stepped on a nail. It is not a judgement on the value of the person or a judgement that one is more of a person than the other.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

you need to pick- are we having the philosophical talk or the biological one.
dna is biological. souls are philsophical.

I believe in DNA- I believe each person has DNA and we can take check cells, blood, hair, and other things from bodies and get DNA off them.

I also believe in souls, bodies, and minds. and a full, complete, live human needs all 3 to qualify.
no brain = no mind.... brains are the last things to develop in fetuses
my beliefs- you need a soul and body to have a mind.

perhaps its more important for the female who has family, friends, a future, dreams, goals, feelings, and thoughts to not lose potentially everything so a fetus can grow and be born.

Simply saying it doesn't cut it wolf. If you can rationally prove it, then you have a philosophical concept. Just stating a belief with no rational justification isn't philosophy.

A philosophical discussion doesn't consist short exchanges. On the first page I explained my position on personhood. You might start with explaining how I am wrong that personhood is a matter of kind and not degree.

Sorry, but simply stating what you believe doesn't cut it. If you have even taken a single semester of philosophy then you know that you must rationally explain your belief, not simply state it.

In states that don't have the death penalty, you won't be executed for killing a cop and just get a prison sentence for killing a civillian. You are off on a tangent here. Prison sentences are not judgements on whether you deserve to have your rights protected or not. If you kill 10 cops in broad daylight on national TV and are eventually taken into custody alive, your rights are still protected. You get a lawyer assigned to you if you can't afford one, you get a trial, you get appeals. The police can't simply take you out back and execute you even if they know beyond a doubt that you are guilty. You have your rights.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

my beliefs in souls comes from a christian and religious perspective- I don't have to explain that since its fairly common knowledge. there are also studies proving that even when people are physically dead and brought back to life they have memories of that time they hoovered between life and death. many like me use this idea to reinforce the concept of a soul.
I take my view of human intellect being a key in humanity and life qualification because:
1-it seperates us from animals and plants
2-we're named for it
3-god made us in god's image. an intellegent one
4-I believe life is about knowing and understanding things. its about experience.

I know fetus don't think- they lack the parts of the brian that deal with thinking in the first trimester.

I think the soul is part of your conscience. your body is non-intellegent. and the combination of both creates a mind that connects the spiritual and physical aspects of one's life.

yes the police thing is a tangent. I'm not speaking of capital punishment however. most states do treat police murder different than civilain murder. and murder of FBI agents is a felony that is part of the death penalty.
in some states rape by a gov official carries a longer sentence and sometimes more flexible statute of limitations.

[quote=wolf_22;361753]my beliefs in souls comes from a christian and religious perspective- I don't have to explain that since its fairly common knowledge. there are also studies proving that even when people are physically dead and brought back to life they have memories of that time they hoovered between life and death. many like me use this idea to reinforce the concept of a soul.
I take my view of human intellect being a key in humanity and life qualification because:
1-it seperates us from animals and plants
2-we're named for it
3-god made us in god's image. an intellegent one
4-I believe life is about knowing and understanding things. its about experience.

I know fetus don't think- they lack the parts of the brian that deal with thinking in the first trimester.

I think the soul is part of your conscience. your body is non-intellegent. and the combination of both creates a mind that connects the spiritual and physical aspects of one's life. [quote]


The thing is wolf, that from the time of our conception, we are destined to develop the things that you claim make us human beings. The fact is that it is our nature. We don't undergo any radical change of our essential nature, we simply continue to grow and mature. If it is in our nature to mature into the things that you claim make us human beings, then we are human beings from the time we are concieved.

Personhood is a matter of kind and not degree. If intelligence were what makes you a human being, then it stands to reason that people who are more intelligent would be more human and those who are less intelligent would be less human. That isn't the case. You can do nothing to become either more or less human therefore personhood is a matter of the kind of creature you are and not the degree to which you have manifested your essential nature.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

Well that's not the definition of a Human being then...You don't need those to qualify, even though you have them already.

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Gun control is giving criminals guns and taken guns away from law abiding citizens.

[quote=PaleRider;361983][quote=wolf_22;361753]my beliefs in souls comes from a christian and religious perspective- I don't have to explain that since its fairly common knowledge. there are also studies proving that even when people are physically dead and brought back to life they have memories of that time they hoovered between life and death. many like me use this idea to reinforce the concept of a soul.
I take my view of human intellect being a key in humanity and life qualification because:
1-it seperates us from animals and plants
2-we're named for it
3-god made us in god's image. an intellegent one
4-I believe life is about knowing and understanding things. its about experience.

I know fetus don't think- they lack the parts of the brian that deal with thinking in the first trimester.

I think the soul is part of your conscience. your body is non-intellegent. and the combination of both creates a mind that connects the spiritual and physical aspects of one's life. a fetus will develop ito a full person. I agree. but before that time its not a full person and its not alive. a ovum will join with a sperm, turn into a zygote, then a fetus, and then a person.
preventing the change from occuring its nessacarily wrong to everyone. its a sperm cells nature to find a ovum and join together- many men masturbate and go against their sperm's nature. many women menstrate and don't have each ovum fertilized.

I tend to think of it as not being more or less human, but of simply qualifing as human. it doesn't matter if your abilties qualify you for mensa or if you are only average. the important thing is that you are alive and huiman

to you, not to me.

There's a real definition, there's no such thing as a definition for something to one person and then a different for another, a cherry has the same definition, a cherry doesn't mean a pipe you smoke to one person, and a fruit you eat to another.

If you don't consider it a human being or alive, fine, but that doesn't change the fact.

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Gun control is giving criminals guns and taken guns away from law abiding citizens.

[quote=wolf_22;362629][quote=PaleRider;361983]A baby will turn into a child, a child will turn into an adult.the zygote turns into a fetus then the fetus into the baby, is no different.

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Gun control is giving criminals guns and taken guns away from law abiding citizens.

Sure. we "are" different at different times. It's more a matter of being as opposed to application of philosophical concept.

There are many processes that make individuals more or less than they are.