Originally Posted by PaleRider

Clearly, you didn't understand the original question. Here, let me ask it again.

Can you be made into something less than you actually are or more than you actually are, or into an entirely different thing than you actually are via the application of a philosophical concept?

following my premise of the mind/body/soul concept, yes. once the soul is disconnected from the body the mind is either partially inactive or no longer there. thus a part of the person is lost.


And you define no one else but yourself wolf. Now that we have determined that we define no one but ourselves (and we can't do a good job of that) do you believe that you can change the reality of what someone or something else is by applying a philosophical concept?

Keep in mind that you just said that the only person you can define is yourself.

Originally Posted by wolf_22

following my premise of the mind/body/soul concept, yes. once the soul is disconnected from the body the mind is either partially inactive or no longer there. thus a part of the person is lost.

Originally Posted by wolf_22

I can answer the mind/body/soul question based on my own personal view. this extends to other people as well. I do not believe I am the only one with a soul or a body or a mind. I simply think my body is unique, my soul is unlike anyother soul, and thus my mind is different than others in many ways.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Ok. Once again, you clearly don't understand the question so let me ask one more time.

Can you be made into something less than you actually are or more than you actually are, or into an entirely different thing than you actually are via the application of a philosophical concept?

Your senario does not represent the application of a philosophical concept, it represents the application of a physical brain injury. Do you understand the difference between expressing an idea about a thing and a brain injury? If you want to talk about how you may or may not change if you recieve a brain injury, then start a thread about brain injuries. This thread, however is about philosophical concepts and a brain injury and its aftermath are not philosophical concepts.

Let me break this down into simpler terms for you? Suppose you have a grape sitting on a table. Do you believe that you can change that grape into something more than a grape, or make it less than a grape simply by expressing ideas that you might have about that grape. You can't touch it, you can't crush it, you can't do anything but talk about it. Now. Can you make it into something else simply by talking about it?



What you believe is irrelavent to other people wolf. As you said, you only get to define yourself and we are hardly objective with regard to ourselves so your assesment of yourself is highly questionable as anyone's assemsment of themselves would be.

This is beside the point however. The question is, can I make you into more than you actually are or less than you actually are or into something entirely different than you are simply by talking about you and expressing my ideas about you. This isn't rocket science wolf.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Can you be made into something less than you actually are or more than you actually are, or into an entirely different thing than you actually are via the application of a philosophical concept?

Originally Posted by percysunshine

Read 'Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintanence', and all your questions will be answered.

Originally Posted by wolf_22

no you can't make someone into less or more than they are by talking about them in a physical sense.
but since the law revolves around language than the labeling of certain people and objects changes their value.

Originally Posted by wolf_22

a baseball card will always be a piece of lamenated paper. but based no whose picture is on the card, how old it is, and how clean/well-conditinoed it is it can be worth a few dollars or a few thousand dollars.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

I read it back in the 70's

Did you know that it is available on the internet?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: Index

Originally Posted by percysunshine

No, I didn't. Still have my old copy on the bookshelf. I may be a dinosaur, but hardcopy is a habit that is hard to break. If you have not read it in that amount of time, I would recommend a reread. I have read it 3 times over the past thirty years, and it has ment something different each time.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Finally. So we agree that you can't change a living human being into something else by simply applying a philosophical concept to them. We are what we are. If an unborn is a living human being, no amount of philosophy is going to change them into something else.

its not a human

Value is an entirely different thing. I may value you very little (theoretically) or I may find you of no value at all. Does the amount of value that I (or anyone else for that matter) place upon you have anything at all to do with what you are and the inherent rights that go along with being what you are (a living human being)?

Now your abilities may make you more or less valuable in the marketplace with regard to the work you do. If you have rare or exceptional abilities you may be worth more than someone else who has lesser or more common skills as an employee, just as a rare or exceptional baseball card may be worth more to a collector. Your worth as an employee, that is what someone is willing to pay you to do a job for them (and technically a baseball card does a job for its owner) has nothing at all to do with your basic human rights.