Application of Philosophical Concepts

PaleRider · #**121** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburbanite

i understand your concern, its based specifically on one thing, you think there is something called reality which we percieve.

I am waiting for some concrete evidence that suggests that reality only exists as we create it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburbanite

It makes sense to think this way, so I can't fault you for it, and most people often think this way. I will say, however, that there is nothing substantive to "reality".

Very easy to say, but simply not provable. As I asked someone else, could you take a handgun from me, put it to your temple, "create" a reality in which it is a squirt gun, pull the trigger and do nothing more than get the side of your head wet? If not, does that mean that my reality of handing you a handgun is more potent than your reality of recieving a squirt gun? If my reality is more potent, does that mean that my version of the universe as it actually is is closer to the way it actually is than your version of the universe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburbanite

Perceivable reality, philosophically, is subject to many dilemmas. And whereas the elemental compounds won't change when the word is reinterpreted, it doesn't mean its wrong to reinterpret it.

So you admit that reality can't actually be changed but only the perception of reality. That is, "creating" your own reality only works if the reality that you create for yourself is very close to the actual reality of the universe and if you attempt to create a reality for yourself that is in opposition to the actual reality of the universe, you will get nothing but chaos and entropy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburbanite

Reinterpretation is not a tool to turn lead into gold, it isn't alchemy. Its specifically used to help us adapt to our environment. If we need to change more things to adapt better is it not then our imperative? And will, at that time, it not be seen as reality?

As far as the abortion question goes. Is it your position that arguing that abortion does not kill a living human being doesn't change the fact that it is a living human being being killed, but by calling it something else, and getting people to agree with you one may alleviate the guilt that one may take on by admitting that one is killing a human being?

Lexi · #**122** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

As far as the abortion question goes. Is it your position that arguing that abortion does not kill a living human being doesn't change the fact that it is a living human being being killed, but by calling it something else, and getting people to agree with you one may alleviate the guilt that one may take on by admitting that one is killing a human being?

When abortion is done in the first trimester the answer is , NO it does not kill a HUMAN BEING, it kills a clump of cells. Why should anyone have guilt for killing a clump of cells?

PaleRider · #**123** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

When abortion is done in the first trimester the answer is , NO it does not kill a HUMAN BEING, it kills a clump of cells. Why should anyone have guilt for killing a clump of cells?

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new human being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition."E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, PATHOLOGY OF THE FETUS AND THE INFANT, 3d ed. (Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers)

Feel free to provide some credible science that states explicitly that the offspring of two human beings is EVER anything but a human being.

TakuanSoho · #**124** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Feel free to provide some credible science that states explicitly that the offspring of two human beings is EVER anything but a human being.

Do you believe in evolution?

If so, there is your answer as you asked the question. I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you said it.

If you don't believe in evolution, ignore this post.

Lexi · #**125** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

So you believe that we do create our own realities? OK, then why do you oppose abortion? If we create our own reality, then every pregnancy is the reality created by the pregnant woman. If she creates her reality, and she is pregnant, then she must want to be pregnant and why allow her to kill that which she wanted?

Why oppose rape? A rape victim creates her own reality and in the reality that she created, she is raped. Since she creates her reality, she must have wanted to experience rape. If each of us creates our own reality, then war victims, the homeless, the mentally retarded, and the handicapped must want what they get. Otherwise, why not create a reality of sunshine and rainbows? If the story that you tell yourself about reality closely matches actual reality, then you certainly could create the illusion for yourself that you create your own reality. If however, the story you tell yourself about reality doesn't match actual reality, then you see a world that is complete chaos. You get raped, you get pregnant when you didn't plan on it, you get disabled, you have a mental illness, you live on the street and all manner of other awful things that can happen to anyone at any time. Just when you feel like you are in control, the universe has a way of stepping up, smacking you in the face, and explaining in no uncertain terms that you are not creating your own reality.

You aren't smart enough for this discussion lexi. It can only end badly for you. But feel free to explain why there are victims of rape, war, incest, dissability, mental illness, abuse, etc if we do create our own realities.

I'm a pro choice because I believe every woman in America should have the right to do what she wants to with her body and no man can or will ever be able to tell her what to do with it. You can try, no doubt about that but all you'll do is make the situation even worse.

No the reality is that she was raped by some creep like you . She didn't ask for it but that's reality too, we sometimes get what we don't ask for and sometimes get what we ask for. Events never change reality. Each thing you listed are just some of the realities we face every day , not the total picture.

I seem to remember you being smacked in the face quite a few times on here and you just got smacked again..

There are victims of rape, war, incest, mental illiness, and all the others because that's life and life is reality. Reality is that not all people are good people and the rest of us have to live with the realities they inflict upon us.

I'm smart enough for any discussion you can bring up and it is really cute when you get caught in your own web you tell the other person they aren't smart enough. Nope, I'm not the only one you've done that to and won't be the last but you will NEVER win a discussion with me and you know it.

A biochemist either has a BS or Ph.D, which do you have Paleone? Are you a leader or a follower?

Lexi · #**126** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new human being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition."E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, PATHOLOGY OF THE FETUS AND THE INFANT, 3d ed. (Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers)

Feel free to provide some credible science that states explicitly that the offspring of two human beings is EVER anything but a human being.

But the REALITY is that not everyone shares your opinion of that. I don't.. A clump of cells is just that , a clump of cells, no more, no less.

Suburbanite · #**127** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 08:04 PM

lexi, it is the person who first reverts back to personal attacks to defend their position. Pale Rider might not agree with you, but he is hardly a "creep" nor has he expressed any ill intention. Its all about context, and within the context of this thread, you're out of your element.

Themaniacster · #**128** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

I'm a pro choice because I believe every woman in America should have the right to do what she wants to with her body and no man can or will ever be able to tell her what to do with it. You can try, no doubt about that but all you'll do is make the situation even worse.

No the reality is that she was raped by some creep like you . She didn't ask for it but that's reality too, we sometimes get what we don't ask for and sometimes get what we ask for. Events never change reality. Each thing you listed are just some of the realities we face every day , not the total picture.

I seem to remember you being smacked in the face quite a few times on here and you just got smacked again..

There are victims of rape, war, incest, mental illiness, and all the others because that's life and life is reality. Reality is that not all people are good people and the rest of us have to live with the realities they inflict upon us.

A biochemist either has a BS or Ph.D, which do you have Paleone? Are you a leader or a follower?

1% of abortions are because of Rape or Incest, 6% are because of danger to the mother. The other 93% are because of inconvenience. Your stupidity makes me laugh because it's funny, then it makes me cry because it's sad. It's like a good movie, really.

Suburbanite · #**129** (**permalink**) 04-22-2008, 11:29 PM

palerider what you're missing from my point is that reality is just a word, and like any other, completely subject to change and reinterpretation. Its not like there is some thing, some substance called reality.

PaleRider · #**130** (**permalink**) 04-23-2008, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

But the REALITY is that not everyone shares your opinion of that. I don't.. A clump of cells is just that , a clump of cells, no more, no less.

The reality is that it is not an opinion. Your position is opinion. If I just said that we are living human beings from conception and had nothing with which to substantiate it (like you) then my position would be no more valid than yours. I, however, can provide all manner of evidence to support my position while you, so far, have provided nothing to support yours.