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03-13-2008, 06:48 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
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What the Prebyterians Say about being pro choice.
92 Policy on Problem Pregnancy & Abortion
I. E. Policy Development
Clearly there is both agreement and disagreement in our use and interpretation of Scripture. There is also agreement and disagreement on the basic issue of abortion. The committee agreed that there are no biblical texts that speak expressly to the topic of abortion, but that taken in their totality the Holy Scriptures are filled with messages that advocate respect for the woman and child before and after birth. Therefore, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) encourages an atmosphere of open debate and mutual respect for a variety of opinions concerning the issues related to problem pregnancies, and abortion.
The following areas of substantial agreement form the policy for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.):
1. Areas of Substantial" Agreement on the Issue of Abortion
a. The church ought to be able to maintain within its fellowship those who, on the basis of a study of Scripture and prayerful decision, come to diverse conclusions and actions.
b. Problem pregnancies are the result of, and influenced by, so many complicated and insolvable circumstances that we have neither the wisdom nor the authority to address or decide each situation. Christians seek the guidance of Scripture in the midst of relationships and circumstances of awesome proportions that affect their interpretation and decision making.
c. We affirm the ability and responsibility of women, guided by the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, in the context of their communities of faith, to make good moral choices in regard to problem pregnancies.
d. We call upon Presbyterians to work for a decrease in the number of problem pregnancies, thereby decreasing the number of abortions.
e. The considered decision of a woman to terminate a pregnancy can be a morally acceptable, though certainly not the only or required, decision. Possible justifying circumstances would include medical indications of severe physical or mental deformity, conception as a result of rape or incest, or conditions under which the physical or mental health of either woman or child would be gravely threatened.
f. We are disturbed by abortions that seem to be elected only as a convenience or to ease embarrassment. We affirm that abortion should not be used as a method of birth control.
g. Abortion is not morally acceptable for gender selection only or solely to obtain fetal parts for transplantation.
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03-13-2008, 06:48 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
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h. Under circumstances in which abortion is the decision, it is preferable for it to happen earlier rather than later.
i. We do not wish to see laws enacted that would attach criminal penalties to those who seek abortions or to appropriately qualified and licensed persons who perform abortions in medically approved facilities.
j. We reject the use of violence and/or abusive language either in protest of or in support of abortion, whether this occurs in places where abortions are performed, at the homes of physicians who perform abortions, or in other public demonstrations.
k. As God has expressed love and grace in Jesus Christ, so we are to express that love and grace to one another when faced with this difficult and complex subject. Despite our diversity of opinion, we should pray for
l. The strong Christian presumption is that since all life is precious to God, we are to preserve and protect it. Abortion ought to be an option of last resort. The large number of abortions in this society is a grave concern to the church.
m. The Christian community must be concerned about and address the circumstances that bring a woman to consider abortion as the best available option. Poverty, unjust societal realities, sexism, racism, and inadequate supportive relationships may render a woman virtually powerless to choose freely.
n. Presbyterians hold varying points of view about when human begins. The five most common viewpoints are
(1) at conception, when a woman's unfertilized egg is fertilized by a male's sperm, producing a zygote,
(2) when the following criteria, developed by the Harvard Medical School, are met: (a) response to eternal stimuli, (b) presence of deep reflex action, (c) presence of spontaneous movement and respiratory effort, and (d) presence of brain activity ascertained by the electroencephalogram. These criteria would be met by the end of the third month in almost all cases.
(3) at "quickening," when movements can be subjectively perceived by the woman, usually around four to five months.
(4) at "viability," when the unborn child is potentially capable. of living outside the woman's womb with artificial help (life support system). Today, our medical technology makes this possible at around 20 weeks.
(5) at birth, when the baby is physically separated from the woman and begins to breathe on its own.
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03-13-2008, 06:49 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
Posts: 6,643
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Those holding these varying points of view agree, however, that after human life has begun, it is to be cherished and protected as a precious gift of God.
While Presbyterians do not have substantial agreement on when human life begins, we do have agreement that taking human life is sin.
o. By affirming the ability and responsibility of a woman to make good moral choices regarding Problem pregnancies, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) does not advocate abortion but instead acknowledges circumstances in a sinful world that may make, abortion the least objectionable of difficult options.
p. It must be clearly stated to the individual who has undergone an abortion and who believes the abortion to be sinful that there is no biblical evidence to support the idea that abortion is an unpardonable sin.
We all sin and fall short of God's purpose for us. In caring, compassionate love, we who have experienced God's amazing grace are called to be instruments of healing, comfort, and support to all who are struggling through traumatic experiences. Together we become God's redeemed, forgiven, forgiving, community--the church.
2. Implications for the Life and Witness of the Church
It is a strong part of our Reformed heritage that the Christian is always under obligation to try to shape public. life according to the will of God. The church and individual Christians, therefore, are called to work for laws of the state that will accord with their understanding of the will of God. But the church must remember that it fulfills its obligation to try to shape public life not by the imposition of law, but by preaching, teaching, and living its gospel, The church cannot demand that its ethic, which is born out of its faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the authority of Scripture, become the law of the state (especially of a pluralistic state like ours) for all persons. To give an analogy, from the standpoint of the Church's faith, idolatry is a violation of the first and greatest commandment. But the Church cannot demand that the state punish by legal means all of those who do not worship the God we worship.
However, the church should do everything in its power to further the will of God in the body politic, For example, it can remind the state continually that it is not absolute, but stands under the governance and judgment of God, just as it reminds every individual of those facts. It should assist those who face difficult situations in bearing and rearing children. It should hold up before society biblical standards of sexual morality and Christian family life. And it should, by the example of all its members, model the Christian way of life, which stands in such contrast to the lifestyles of our secular society.
The church should lead the community in wholesome nurture and loving support of people. This should include children, singles, families, and those who bear and raise families -- often in tragically poor circumstances. Because we view parenthood as a vocation, the church should provide training in parenting skills. This should emphasize the responsibility of both mother and father with mutual support.
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03-13-2008, 06:49 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Virginia ( Gods Country)
Posts: 6,643
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The rest of the statement of policy can be read at the above provided link.
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03-14-2008, 10:10 AM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,831
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I am waiting for you to provide some sort of proof that states that the offspring of two human beings is ever anything but a human being. I have provided plenty of credible science that states explicilty that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved.
Here is a sampling of the information that I have provided.
an unborn child is a human being from conception is “supported by standard textbooks on embryology or human biology” T.W. SADLER, LANGMAN’S MEDICAL EMBRYOLOGY (John N. Gardner ed., 6th ed.)
"Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings." John C. Fletcher, Mark I. Evans, "Maternal Bonding in Early Fetal Ultrasound Examinations," New England Journal of Medicine, February 17, 1983.
A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm ... unites with a female gamete or oocyte ... to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual." Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed.(Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company), 2-18.
"Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human being is thereby formed"Ronan R. O'Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, HUMAN EMBRYOLOGY & TERATOLOGY , (New York: Wiley-Liss), 5-55.
In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. ... Fertilization takes place in the oviduct ... resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point... This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."Essentials of Human Embryology William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone), 1-17.
"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitues the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw), 43
Now, if you can offer up some credible science that says that we are not human beings from conception, I would be interested in seeing it.
__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi
"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma
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