Well you called me childish for asking you for proof so maybe YOU should do the explaining..

pale: are you one of those people who think that embroys with disorders like taysacs (sp) or other deadly, painful disorders should be implanted anyway?
and why isn't your wife volenteering her uterus to house some of these embroyos so they aren't destroyed?

I don't think that people with genetic disorders in their families should be involving themselves in IVF.

My wife is in her 60's, but even if she were in her 20's, how does what she does or does not do change the fact that unborns are living human beings who are being denied thier rights. Suggesting that the facts might change in some way because of what anyone does or does not do is flawed logic wolf.

Unborns either are human beings or they are not. I have provided plenty of evidence that they are both alive, and human beings. To date, neither you, nor any of your "crew" have provided any credible science that states otherwise.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

Pale always has an excuse why he or his wife doesn't want to have anything to do with these babies after they are born. All they want is to have their agenda filled , end of story...

You've said you were fighting for this for years Pale, so age is no excuse now.

yes we have. you choose to not listen and you choose to enlist the law/government to help you tell people how to live instead of doing things that help these embroyos and fetus you care for so much. its easy to bitch and complain, its hard to actually to something that involves some self-sacrifice and work.

Actually, they don't weed out eggs and sperm that carry a genetic disease. They test the child and if a disorder is present, they kill it. There are certain disorders however, that don't show up and are more prevalent among IVF children than those concieved naturally.

I don't "think" unborns are living human beings. I know they are and am not in denial so that I can continue to hold a certain position. And it is no more difficult to say that they are alive than it is to say that you are alive. Suggesting that what any particular person does with regard to carrying one of the children in IVF clinics changes the essential nature of that child (living human being) is a logical fallacy wolf. They are living children whether my wife volunteers to carry one or not and the fact that she hasn't volunteered is not a valid reason to deny them their right to live.

No you haven't. I don't know what constitutes proof to you? Do you believe that wysewyfe's metaphysical ramblings constitute proof? Do you believe that vapeach's religious cut and paste represents proof? I have news for you, neither constitutes proof. They are dodges manufactured specifically because the science is indisuptable. If you believe that anyone has provided proof that the offspring of two human beings is ever anything but a human being, I do invite you to bring it foreward.

Of course, we both know that you won't, because you can't, because no such proof has been presented. I certainly have no problem bringing forward the proof that we are living human beings from conception to anyone who asks, but when you and your crew make the claim that you have brought proof and are asked to bring it forward, you don't because you can't. You made it up. It doesn't exist here, or anywhere else.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

If you and your wife are in your sixties you should be enjoying your "golden years" instead of sticking your nose in other peoples uteruses.. Why not just concentrate on your wifes instead? Might be more pleasant..

Pale rider is a unethical, immoral waste of time Lexi.

he is enjoying the attention his illogical rants are getting.

I suggest we starve him of that attention he craves.

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This entire argument is a straw man. Here is someone who believes abortion is ok because the fetus (according to her interpretation of the Bible - which she also thinks has no validilty) has no life until it takes its first breath arguing that its wrong to fertilize embyros and then destroy them.

I find this to be an extremely disingenious argument from this particular poster.

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Its better to have fussed and crabbed then never to have fussed at all - Lucy