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  #311 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 05:37 AM
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sounds like a thriveing american buisness......or do you want to send that overseas too?
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  #312 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
Hi BD,

Then why didn't they just say this when they wrote the Constitution....yet, no word of a "Creator" or his/her/its law. And, when you say "Creator", whose creator? I mean...we need to know that before we decide which laws contradict his/her/its decree. American Indians? Muslim? Hindu? etc.

Like which ones???
Take some time and visit a legal library and read some corporate charters. You know, the documents that bring a legal entity into being. Then read the corporate bylaws for that same legal entity. You rarely see the sentiments expressed in the charter repeated in the bylaws as it would represent pointless redundancy. The bylaws are the means by which the legal entity fulfills the sentiments expressed in the charter.

By the same token, and in the same legal vein, the DOI is the charter that brought the legal entity known as the US into being. The constitution is the set of bylaws by which the government is to fulfill the sentiments expressed in the charter (DOI).
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  #313 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Reynard1967 View Post
sounds like a thriveing american buisness......or do you want to send that overseas too?
Do you have any actual point to make or do you just go about delivering banal one liners because that is the best you can do. If it is, just say so and I will understand. There is no dishonor in not being capable of more.
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  #314 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by PaleRider View Post

Doctors who run abortion clinics are operating a slaugherhouse. The women come in through the chute, pass through the styles and exit not to be seen again unless they are returning for the same purpose. The cost per visit is much higher than you would pay to any general doctor for an office visit and the doctor sees more women.

You are a perfect example of what Pro Life is all about Pale. Using scare tactics instead of giving true facts like Pro Choice does. this is exactly what causes a lot of teens to give birth to babies and then abuse them or kill them. But in your opinion I'm sure that is OK, just as long as you get your agenda across..
You are a sick ,pathetic, nincompoop.
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  #315 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:50 AM
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You seemed smarter than this to me storman. Surely you realize that so long as roe stands, a bad decision makes unborns legally something other than human beings in the same manner as a bad decision once made blacks legally something other than human beings. During the time of slavery, you couldn't just unilatarally decide that you recognized the humanity of blacks and rescue them from their owners. If you did, you would certainly lose your case in court.
Not a bad analogy, slavery and abortion, Pale...but, I see a subtle nuance that makes them very different in this context.
- Slavery: Prior to 1860, if you decided to take action and attempted to rescue slaves from their owners, that would have been an illegal action....i.e., stealing property (as crazy as that sounds). Ask John Brown.
- Abortion: What I'm talking about here, Pale, is inaction....that is, the medical community as a community abiding by their Hippocratic Oath and refusing to perform abortions....based on their universal belief that fetuses at any stage are human beings. It is NOT illegal for a doctor to NOT perform abortions, is it?

And I agree with you, Pale, if they did this, there would certainly be lawsuits. But, let me ask you a question, if you were a doctor and on one of these medical boards, would you not push for making performing an abortion a violation of the Hippocratic Oath? I think you would. And I have to think Pale...if the medical community universally believes as you do, that many of them would push for the same thing....especially in places like Kansas, etc....lawsuits be damned....

One last point, lawyers can be disbarred for doing things that are not technically illegal, why can't the same thing apply to the medical profession?
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  #316 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:54 AM
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The DOI does not suggest that laws and legal systems are derived from a creator. The DOI acknowledges that your inalienable rights come from some source other than government and it is government's primary responsibility to defend and protect those rights.
I agree with you here, Pale. And, I have to be honest, I'm not sure what BD is arguing for here. Does he want our government to be an actively religious one? To me, that would be a violoation of the 1st and 14th Amendments.
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  #317 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 09:59 AM
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An OB/Gyn can only see so many patients and his "coin" comes from the fact that they are repeating patients, at least until the child is born and then that "coin" moves on to a pediatrician.

Doctors who run abortion clinics are operating a slaugherhouse. The women come in through the chute, pass through the styles and exit not to be seen again unless they are returning for the same purpose. The cost per visit is much higher than you would pay to any general doctor for an office visit and the doctor sees more women.
I agree with your point here, Pale and understand the time dimension difference. But, the question still remains.....if all abortions performed in the last couple of years were instead allowed to continue to full-term pregnancies and births (at least the ones that would've naturally), then would that have been more "coin" per year for the medical community than performing the abortions?
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Last edited by StormanNorman; 05-08-2008 at 10:02 AM.
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  #318 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
- Abortion: What I'm talking about here, Pale, is inaction....that is, the medical community as a community abiding by their Hippocratic Oath and refusing to perform abortions....
Inaction is action. When the supreme court decided Roe in 1973, they rejected the Oath as a guide to medical ethics and practice. There is a movement among ethical doctors to reinstate the oath as it was originally taken by doctors (it was changed sometime in the 80's to allow for abortion) which would make facilitating abortion grounds to remove a doctor's license.

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
based on their universal belief that fetuses at any stage are human beings. It is NOT illegal for a doctor to NOT perform abortions, is it?
Not any more. A bill passed in 2004 which gave hospitals and individual doctors the right to refuse to provide abortions. There is considerable effort on the part of pro choice to have the law stricken from the books and have punishments put back in place for doctors or hospitals that refuse. Here is an article from the approximate time the law was passed.

Congress approves anti-abortion clause | World news | The Guardian

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
And I agree with you, Pale, if they did this, there would certainly be lawsuits. But, let me ask you a question, if you were a doctor and on one of these medical boards, would you not push for making performing an abortion a violation of the Hippocratic Oath?
Again, there is a movement by ethical doctors to bring the oath back to its original state. It was changed in the 80's (I believe) to allow for abortion.

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
I think you would. And I have to think Pale...if the medical community universally believes as you do, that many of them would push for the same thing....especially in places like Kansas, etc....lawsuits be damned....
The issue within the medical community is not over whether they are human beings but whether it is OK to kill them. The pro choice movement in general is responsible for the illusion that unborns are not actually human beings. If they admitted the nature of unborns, then a great deal of their support would dry up.

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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
One last point, lawyers can be disbarred for doing things that are not technically illegal, why can't the same thing apply to the medical profession?
Until the law referenced above was passed, it was possible to take the license of a doctor who refused to perform an abortion in the same manner that a pharmacist could have been fired had he or she refused to hand out morning after pills.
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  #319 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
I agree with your point here, Pale and understand the time dimension difference. But, the question still remains.....if all abortions performed in the last couple of years were instead allowed to continue to full-term pregnancies and births (at least the ones that would've naturally), then would that have been more "coin" per year for the medical community than performing the abortions?
I believe that a bit of research on your part would show you that the doctors who are performing abortions are generally those who barely made it through medical school. I don't know how many of them would be able to open legitimate general practices.

They make a great deal of money and are supported by people with very deep pockets. The richest doctors, as is the case with the richest lawyers are very often bottom feeders who lack any real technical skill and can attribute much of their success to the fact that they aren't fettered with the ethical concerns of a more honorable professional.
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  #320 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:59 AM
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You are a perfect example of what Pro Life is all about Pale. Using scare tactics instead of giving true facts like Pro Choice does. this is exactly what causes a lot of teens to give birth to babies and then abuse them or kill them. But in your opinion I'm sure that is OK, just as long as you get your agenda across..
You are a sick ,pathetic, nincompoop.
Which part of my description was not honest? And which part of the pro choice line are you claiming is "true fact"?
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