I have been involved in a discussion with a few ladies on another thread and it seems that their entire position on abortion rests, and depends upon the idea that unborns aren't alive.

This leads me to wonder how many folks there are who actually believe that there is a third state in which we can exist that is neither alive nor dead. There doesn't seem to be any real discussion among scientists, even those who are pro choice as to whether unborns are alive at any stage of development. There is a great deal of discussion as to whether it is OK to kill them, or use them in scientific experiments, but none with regard to whether or not they are alive.

In this other conversation, whenever one of these ladies suggested that unborns aren't alive, I asked for some sort of credible science to support their claim that they weren't alive or that there was some third state that we can exist in that is neither alive nor dead, but they never provided anything that resembled credible support for their position.


"What you can't seem to get in that nog of yours is that all that scientific mumbo jumbo you have doesn't mean shit. "

"Your "scientific facts" are worthless in the REAL WORLD...."

"a fetus is not alive. and I stand by everything I've said"

"fetuses aren't alive. deal with it."

"a fetus is pre-life. its not alive. "

"When life begins? Nope! You wont find credible scientific thought on it. It's not a medical/scientific question. "

"And, major medical schools, not the small ones affiliated with religious organizations, did not deal with issues of when life begins. At least up to 1971, they didn't."

"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk."

My question isn't whether it is OK to terminate a pregnancy, or whether it is OK to use embryos in scientific experiments. My question is whether or not you believe that we are alive from the time we are concieved; and if you don't believe that we are alive at any stage of our lives, what exactly, do you base this belief on?

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

Ya know Pale, I really admire your determination. Very admiradable.

I base my belief on the fact that I don't know. I have said many times, If i were faced with the choice, I'd have the baby, but I am not willing to take away someone else's right to choose.

The truth is, I suppose I will find out the answer when I die.

Science is tainted, atleast to me it seems that way. Everyone picks a field of work based on personal interest. So many scientists are pro-life and supporting the pro-life movement, and many are pro-choice supporting the pro-choice movement.

I will stand by my personal views of what I feel this country was built and based on.

So, is it a life I don't know. But if it is,or not, you are asking women, DAUGHTERS, mothers, sisters, friends, cousins, aunts, etc. to die instead of the unborn. So, would I sacrifice my daughter to illegal abortion one day (because she made a mistake) for some fetus I don't know - fuckin don't think so. In that case I say, fuck the fetus, fuck the baby, fuck the whatever you want to call-it. I would pick my daughters life first. And I would pick any of the above first as well!

Hope that helps.

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Who would Jesus Bomb?

Of coarse it hurts. Your being screwed by an elephant.

Barak Obama - Half honkey - all donkey

"It doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes"- Joseph Stalin

I started living when I started thinking. around 14 weeks in the womb

[quote=PaleRider;317686]I have been involved in a discussion with a few ladies on another thread and it seems that their entire position on abortion rests, and depends upon the idea that unborns aren't alive.

This leads me to wonder how many folks there are who actually believe that there is a third state in which we can exist that is neither alive nor dead. There doesn't seem to be any real discussion among scientists, even those who are pro choice as to whether unborns are alive at any stage of development. There is a great deal of discussion as to whether it is OK to kill them, or use them in scientific experiments, but none with regard to whether or not they are alive.

In this other conversation, whenever one of these ladies suggested that unborns aren't alive, I asked for some sort of credible science to support their claim that they weren't alive or that there was some third state that we can exist in that is neither alive nor dead, but they never provided anything that resembled credible support for their position.



Isn't it just like a fanatical pro lifer to twist eveything around to fit their own agenda. The comment in huge letters in red above was not originally written that way, that's your "makeover" to get attention. So much for the "blood and gore " your trying to present.
What we were talking about was "is it a human being at conception or just cells in a petri dish"? My answer was, no it isn't alive at conception. Actually the cells are alive but they are not at that point "a human being".
And for your information I don't live my life according to the "scientific evidence" of every nutcase and liar that happens to think they are right and everyone else is wrong. If the scientific evidence fits into my life I use it if not , fuck it! Credible evidence??? Why would I even bother when I'm talking to a nut case that doesn't even know what the word "human" means?? My life is MY LIFE, stay the fuck out of it all you fanatical nut cases.

As I clearly stated, this isn't about whether abortion is OK. This thread is for discussing the basis upon which you do or do not believe that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved.

Just in case there is some misunderstanding about what life is, allow me to provide an accurate definition.

life - the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.

You have made the claim that we are not living human beings from the time we are concieved, now can any of you back that up with any sort of credible science?

Simply saying a thing does not make it true. There has to be a basis for which we believe a thing, even if that basis is completely bogus. So by what logic do you make the claim that a being can grow from a single cell to a 7 or 8 pound infant in 9 months without being alive.

And wolf, by what logic do you believe that you grew from a single cell to the size you were at 14 weeks if you were not already alive.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

I am nothing, if not tenatious. The thing is that you have made a claim but you have not backed it up with anything and you simply expect that it should be accepted because you said it. Sure, it is your opinion, but an opinion based on faulty information is useless. In fact it is worse than useless because you attempt to convince other people to accept it and perhaps even incorporate it into their world view. What do you gain if you convince someone else to join you in a lie?

Tell me, would you fire a gun into a house or building from outside or set fire to the structure based on the fact that you "don't know" whether or not someone is inside? That seems like a very weak basis for any line of thought.

There are plenty of scientists who are pro choice and it would seem that if we actually were not alive from the time we are concieved, there would be plenty of science from them trying to counter the accepted science that we are alive from the time of conception. Do you not find it odd that there is not an abundance of "science" from the pro choice side?

I have never made any such request. I have always maintained that if a woman's life, or long term health is in danger, that she has the right to defend her life.

But once again, this thread isn't about whether or not abortion is or is not OK, it is about the basis upon which you hold the belief that we are not living beings from the time we are concieved.

Hope that helps.[/quote]

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

The quote is accurate.

I know your answer, but the topic of this thread is upon what basis do you arrive at your answer? Is there some credible source for your belief or do you say that you believe it because it is the only way to maintain the rest of your argument?

I asked you to point out which evidence that I provided to you was a lie and which doctor, or medical textbook was a lie and upon what basis you believed it was a lie. The fact that the information explicitly contradicts your postion does not make it a lie.

Because without credible evidence, lexi, it is you who is the nutcase. It is you who is saying that the earth is flat because you say so. It is you who is saying that the moon is made out of cheese. Just saying a thing doesn't cut it and making claims without corroboration doesn't cut it either.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

I think it is life. I also believe in abortion

Any particular reason you think it is a life other than that it is self evident?

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

Evidence shows babies can think and feel very early, 4/5th of abortions occur at this time, (I'm repeating myself on different threads it seems), almost all scientists agree with that, so yes, you're killing a baby, that can think, and that can feel.