Have you always been alive?

Lexi · #**541** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 08:17 AM

Where's the link to the comment you made that said "animals have no right to life" Pale? Guess I'll have to find it when I have time and throw it in your face..

wvpeach · #**542** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 08:46 AM

Themaniacster

SaintMalaclypse is a potty mouth , I have highlighted and enlarged his potty mouth for you below.

strange how right wing nuts who claim to be pro life are also uniformly against all social programs to feed the poor and would gladly stand by and see children starve that are alive today. It is also strange that almost universally all these nuts are pro war and don't mind that thousands of children were killed when the bombs dropped on iraq.

Are you a hypocrite like the rest of these people Themaniacster ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintMalaclypse

Many many mistakes made here...

You CHOSE to fuck, but DECIDED you didn't want a baby. First mistake. Your medical training should have told you that those two aren't compatible decisions.

You CHOSE a guy who bailed when you got pregnant. It doesn't take professional psychologist to get to know a guy well enough to see what kind of man he is. You yourself should have been the first clue...he was the kind of guy who was willing to fuck you without any committment to prepare for the possibility of an accidental child. The fact that he was willing to fuck you in those circumstances should have told you he was not responsible.

You CHOSE to pursue education to the (apparent) exclusion of a family. That decision, combined with the decision to go through the act of making a baby whether or not you wanted one, put you in the imaginary position where you believe your self-pursuits are more important than the debt you now owe this new life.

No matter when you think life starts...(as if there was some way you could combine clusters of living cells to create...dead tissue...? But you're in medical school, so you know that's not possible. There is ACTUAL LIFE inside that you created.)...anyway, no matter when it starts, it NEVER chooses to start. You chose that, all by yourself. Part of being Big Boys and Big Girls is that we take responsibility for our choices.

Now...here's the part a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around, so I'll use simple words: When you are a big girl, and you have to take responsibility (that means you owe something to someone) for your acts, always remember: grownups should always try to fulfill their debts by NOT killing stuff.

I know it's complicated, so I'll break it down even further for your specific situation:

When you chose to make a baby, you created what you see as a choice...
You could KILL something and pretend you made good choices, and finish school.
Or, you could NOT kill stuff, wait nine months, and finish school.

So...why do you seem to gravitate toward the KILLING STUFF choice, when BOTH options still allow you to finish school...as if a piece of sheepskin was SOOOO precious that it blurs in value when compared to a human life? And if you choose to not kill stuff, and still are unable to fight your selfish streak, then let someone who MIGHT love the baby have it, and you still get your sheepskin without KILLING STUFF.
You could NOT kill something and stop making irresponsible choices. Then later, you could still finish school.

In every step of the way, you made choices to suit yourself that led to the creation of a baby. Can you not make just ONE choice for the baby and let it live? Not even for nine months, after which you can go fuck more deadbeats and make more selfish choices all you like...? Why is it so hard to just let the baby live?

wvpeach · #**543** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themaniacster

First of all, animals DO NOT have rights, rights are rights by law, and there is no law to give wild animals rights.

You may act like you are free of stereotypes, but I see them embedded in you, why would someone want an end of abortion, but not care about human life afterwards? You can't find the answer because it's simply not true.

And, I laugh at you saying SaintMacalypse is a potty mouth, that is truly hypocritical, you spout hate at every turn with your sterotypes, "Peach".

All right apply your own logic .

The law says the unborn do not have rights either.

Or are you too silly to know that?

wvpeach · #**544** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 10:14 AM

SaintMalaclypse

You start quoting scriptures which is pretty good but you should finish them when you quote them .

Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way." (Romans 14:13).

Your potty mouth SaintMalaclypse is a stumbling block to any witness you might have or attempt.

[quote=SaintMalaclypse;356660]

Quote:

James 4:11 "Brothers do not slander one another"

James 4:12 "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"

First off...show me where "pottymouth" is a sin. Show me anything even remotely related to using vulgar slang being condemned, banned, or even frowned upon in the Bible. I'll assume you've fopund it, and will post it shortly, and will now move on...

You presume to decide for me whether or not I am Saved? You presume to decide for me whether or not I Believe? And in an open accusation? Clearly you wield Belief as a Personal weapon instead of a Divine Shield. Good luck with that.........................................I never said anything about you being saved at all SaintMalaclypse, don't tell me your one of those people who is always putting words in others mouths? You should try reading what is actually said .

Next time...just try asking before you assume. Might keep the blemishes off of your own soul..................................I am the one who will stand in judgment before Christ ,. I plan on being a profitable servant.

And here's a parting thought, since you brought religion into this: When God hated Esau and loved Jocob in the womb, was he a doddering fool talking to an inhuman mass of cellsthat he had mistaken for people...or was he feeling emotion toward Humans in the womb? Surely something more than an inhuman sack would be required to get such strong attention from the Almighty, yes? Or does God show a propensity for hating and loving rocks, jellyfish, sticks and clouds, too? God's Judgement is reserved for humans, last time I checked.

Again your attempting to quote scripture without looking into the entire scriptures or their meanings. Scripture says that God knows each of us before we are formed in the womb. Scripture says that God knows when even a sparrow falls from the sky. The scriptures you speak of have to do with predestination and are not about unborn children at all. Those scriptures show that it is God who is the author of both good and evil.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

Here is the actual scripture of which you speak .

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth .................. The purpose is the plan of God , election is predestination , in other words God had a plan and chose which of these children would carry out the plan for good and the plan for evil. In the end even the evil will be for good because it is all the plan of God.

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ................Predestination and election.

Rom 9:14 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. ..........................Pharaoh was going to let the slaves go and God hardened him , which really means caused him do what God wanted him to do and think what God wanted him to think. . Exodus 9:12, 10:20, of "The Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh"..................God has a plan and includes both good and evil.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. .............................hardeneth, blinds, closes their understanding, all the same thing.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? .....................
Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, ................................afore prepared unto glory, we were chosen and knew by God before the world was even formed.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. ....................The plan of God is finite and includes every human who will ever be born, from Adam till the last. Man cannot change the plan of God no matter what he does, that includes abortion, if God decreed before the world was formed and foreknew a human that human will be born and nothing man does can stop that.

Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. ......................God placed that stumbling block before Israel by design. to teach all men not just israel that God will not tolerate disobedience. That is why the majority of jews are currently blinded to the truth of scriptures. They can read them but its as though they see through a dark veil. God must open the understanding of scriptures to people and he does so for whom God chooses.

So as you can see the scriptures you used are not really so much about unborn children, they are about the predestination and election of God for men and women.

God knows us all before we are formed in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:4-5
The Call of Jeremiah
4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart

God knows us all before we are in the womb and mankind can do nothing to stop a person from being born if God wants them born they will be born.

So I suggest you stop wasting time trying to stop sin SaintMalaclypse. Scripture also says that sin will just get worse and worse in this world till Christs second coming. In fact it says that sin will be so bad that if Christ does not step in when he does all people would die.

Sin will get worse and worse, people have been murdering and committing every other kind of sin since Cain.

Instead of thinking your going to stop sin, which scripture clearly says will; not happen till God stops it, I suggest you concentrate on doing the work of Christ in this world. Go out and help a pregnant mother to keep a roof over her childs head. Be a father to to father less child. That is what Christ commanded us to do.

Christ did not command us to rule the world and wipe sin out. Christ said we are to be in the world but not off this world.

Christians are not here to rule the world we are here to do as Christ taught till his return.

wvpeach · #**545** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 10:18 AM

At least your consistent palerider.

You don't have a clue what my bible says.

animals are to be respected in my bible palerider. You should try reading it sometime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

I just repeated what your own bible says with regard to animal rights. You don't like it, take it up with God.

Since you have posted no facts, I don't know what facts you believe I have ignored. Feel free to bring them foreward unless they are just one more of your lies.

Of course you wouldn't because you would have your silly arguments dismantled and shown for the logical fallacies they are.

bluedog · #**546** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Themaniacster

SaintMalaclypse is a potty mouth , I have highlighted and enlarged his potty mouth for you below.

strange how right wing nuts who claim to be pro life are also uniformly against all social programs to feed the poor and would gladly stand by and see children starve that are alive today. It is also strange that almost universally all these nuts are pro war and don't mind that thousands of children were killed when the bombs dropped on iraq.

Are you a hypocrite like the rest of these people Themaniacster ??

More lies to present your political ideology and still pretending to be a Christian and yet claim God to be a liar by declaring that God finds it acceptable to MURDER CHILDREN? And then presenting conservatives as uncharitable in the light of all the LIBERAL charity? Despite clear contradictory information from even your secular friends in the communist party?

Townhall.com::Who gives to charity?::By John Stossel

PaleRider · #**547** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

Where's the link to the comment you made that said "animals have no right to life" Pale? Guess I'll have to find it when I have time and throw it in your face..

You poor stupid woman. Didn't you notice that I gave you 3 links to the places where I said it? I knew that you certainly wouldn't be able to do it yourself, so I went ahead and did it for you. Then you are such a ditz that you don't even look and then ask me to do what I have already done.

Does it surprise you that I think you are stupid?

PaleRider · #**548** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

At least your consistent palerider.

You don't have a clue what my bible says.

animals are to be respected in my bible palerider. You should try reading it sometime.

I have peach. And I have a greater knowledge of it than you. You are one of those sorts who take a verse or two out of context and attempt to build an argument upon them. That is what the father of lies does. I am sure that he is so proud of you.

Show me a demand for respect for animals peach. Unless by respect, you mean the proper technique for slaughter and preparation for food or sacrifice.

wvpeach · #**549** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 11:48 AM

It is stupid to say animals don't have a right to live as palerider has done.

God gave men dominion over animals, he allows us to use them for food and for clothing, but we are never to abuse them.

One day scripture says that animals will inhabit the new earth with us under God's rule and they will not eat meat nor will we.

Isaiah 65
New Heavens and a New Earth
17"For behold I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
18But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I create;
for behold I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem
and be glad in my people;
no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping
and the cry of distress.
20No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy[c] the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,
for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD,
and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are yet speaking I will hear.
25The wolf and the lamb shall graze together;
the lion shall eat straw like the ox,
and(AT) dust shall be the serpent’s food.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain,"

says the LORD....................................There will be no death on God's new earth and that includes for animals. Animals will one day eat straw even lions, and we will eat fruits and vegetables.

God says all animals are his. "All the animals in the forest are Mine and the cattle on thousands of hills. All the wild birds are Mine and all living things in the fields." Psalm 50:10, 11

Look at the birds flying around . . . your Father in Heaven takes care of them" Matthew 6:26

He gives animals their food and feeds the young ravens when they call." Psalm 147:9

Wolves and sheep will live together in peace, and leopards will lie down with young goats, calves and lion cubs will feed together, and little children will take care of them. Cows and bears will eat together, and their calves and cubs will lie down in peace. Lions will eat straw as cattle do . . . The land will be as full of knowledge of the Lord as the seas are full of water." Isaiah 11:6-9

And then I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, in the world below, and in the sea - all living beings in the universe - and they were singing: 'To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb, be praise and honour, glory and might, forever and ever'."
Revelation 5:13............................All living creatures will worship God one day, it seems animals will be stepped up in intelligence by this scripture.

A good man takes care of his animals, but wicked men are cruel to theirs." Proverbs 12:10

(Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."

(Job 12:7-10 KJV) "But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."

Romans 8:19 says that the lesser creatures await Christ's return to redeem the sons of God so they, too, will be released from physical death to eternal life.

And God opens the mouth of a animal in scripture so that it can talk.

I imagine we will all be having some great conversations with our beloved fellow creation and pets when God rules this world.

Numbers xxii. 28--35.—And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, what have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times ? And Balaam said unto the ass, because thou hast mocked me : I would there were a sword in my hand ; for now would I kill thee. And the ass said unto Balaam, am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine, unto this day ? was I ever wont to do so unto thee ? And he said, Nay.

15

Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand : and he bowed down his hand : and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. And the angel of the Lord said unto him, wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times ? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me. And the ass saw me, and tuned from me these three times : unless she had turned from me, surely how also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. And Balaam said unto the angle of the Lord, I have sinned ; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me : not therefore if it

Deuteronomy xxii. 6, 7.—If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the

20

way, in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young : But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee ; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.

God does care about animals and more importantly we will be judged by how we treat animals.

. (Eccl 3:21)

19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.
21 Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?
22 And I have seen that nothing is better than that man should be happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him? (Eccl 3:18-22)

Seems scripture says that man and beast are not all that different in the flesh.

What makes us human is the spirit sent from God at the moment of our birth just as he takes it at the moment we take our last breath.

And God created animals they will live with us in peace through eternity, so it is stupid to say animals do not have a right to live.

wvpeach · #**550** (**permalink**) 03-31-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

I have peach. And I have a greater knowledge of it than you. You are one of those sorts who take a verse or two out of context and attempt to build an argument upon them. That is what the father of lies does. I am sure that he is so proud of you.

Show me a demand for respect for animals peach. Unless by respect, you mean the proper technique for slaughter and preparation for food or sacrifice.

Hah, you know nothing about the creator or Love and respect for his creation palerider , you have made that perfectly clear to anyone who reads your crap. And if you know anything about scripture you have yet to let that fact show.