Inconvenience, nothing. Pregnancy and childbirth are life altering experiences. If that human being wants to live, tell him/er to go somewhere else. Better yet, you provide for the move.

I provided the definition of convenience and then asked any of you pro choicers to name a situation in which a woman's life or long term health was not in danger that didn't amount to convenience. So far, none of you have named such a situation. Here is the definition of convenience:

convenience - n -
1. the quality of being convenient.
2. anything that saves or simplifies work, adds to one's ease or comfort, etc.
3. a convenient situation or time.
4. advantage or accommodation

Maybe you would now like to describe a situation in which the mother's life or long term health is not in danger that doesn't amount to convenience.

By the way. You wanted to talk philosophy so I waxed philosophical. I am a bit dissappointed that you don't seem to want to take up that conversation either.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

All you've provided so far are a bunch of words that pro life scientists have concocted to make people believe their lies. They've been lying since the "coat hanger " theory, remember....

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"its potential, its potential, its potential because I said so, there's your proof" --- Palerider

1. Why then do you know enough Bible to recall or locate applicable biblical phrases to enhanse your arguements?

2. It is no different than your attempt to glorify the unborn, and increase it's appeal and status to that of a rosie child.

And, how would you explain the difference between a difference of opinion and a lie?


3. Why couldn't you modify your position to include abortion during the first trimester? You studied the zef's brain connections and inability to function. Why are your arguements so black and white?

4. Does this explanation really answer for the passion you display toward the subject. You have been fighting against abortion for years, here and on other sites. Your arguements have become pat and inflexible. What is driving you?

5. Probably because I don't consider the zef any different from another animal at the same stage.

If one struggled to keep grades high enough to get into med. school, and is working to pay for med. school, but becomes pregnant, and must now pay the cost of raising a child, which the male could have just as easily afforded but wants nothing to do with, and she no longer has the wherewithall to achieve her dream. That is far more than an inconvenience.

Yes, you did wax philosophical and you gave us much to think about and to read. I will get to it.

I could also make an argument from the Koran, the Talmud, the Tao te ching, or the Bhagavad Gita and the beginnings of an argument from the Veda. I have studied philosophy at length.

I don't attempt to make something of them that they are not but by the same token, I don't attempt to deny what they are.

An opinion is a position that one holds on grounds that are insufficient to produce certainty while a lie is a false statement made with the deliberate intent to decieve.

Because to do so would make me a hypocrite. They are nothing after the first trimester than they weren't during the first except older and more mature. I gave you a fairly comprehensive explanation in the thread on philosophical concepts. It isn't our brain that makes us human beings. As I explained, personhood is a matter of kind vs a matter of degree. You can do any number of things to make yourself a better or worse person, but you can do nothing to make yourself more or less a person. Personhood isn't something that we aquire since things aquired may be lost. Person describes the kind of creature you are, not the degree to which you have achieved anything.

You were the one who suggested that I have baggage that has anything at all to do with this topic. I don't. Odd that you suggest that I have "passion" at this point; haven't you accused me of being cold and heartless? It would seem that passion from one who is cold and heartless is a contradiction in terms.

Your opinion is meaningless in the face of hard facts to the contrary. Holding an opinion that flies in the face of fact is evidence of a slow, cumbersome, and inflexible mind.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

See definition 3. A convenient situation or time.

I don't make up the definitons, but the words mean what they mean. You describe an action of convenience. Killing the child is simply easier than not killing it. If school is her primary concern and the most important thing in her life, why exactly did she take the chance of becoming pregnant. She is in med school after all, doesn't she know the inherent risks?

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

Many many mistakes made here...

You CHOSE to fuck, but DECIDED you didn't want a baby. First mistake. Your medical training should have told you that those two aren't compatible decisions.

You CHOSE a guy who bailed when you got pregnant. It doesn't take professional psychologist to get to know a guy well enough to see what kind of man he is. You yourself should have been the first clue...he was the kind of guy who was willing to fuck you without any committment to prepare for the possibility of an accidental child. The fact that he was willing to fuck you in those circumstances should have told you he was not responsible.

You CHOSE to pursue education to the (apparent) exclusion of a family. That decision, combined with the decision to go through the act of making a baby whether or not you wanted one, put you in the imaginary position where you believe your self-pursuits are more important than the debt you now owe this new life.

No matter when you think life starts...(as if there was some way you could combine clusters of living cells to create...dead tissue...? But you're in medical school, so you know that's not possible. There is ACTUAL LIFE inside that you created.)...anyway, no matter when it starts, it NEVER chooses to start. You chose that, all by yourself. Part of being Big Boys and Big Girls is that we take responsibility for our choices.

Now...here's the part a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around, so I'll use simple words: When you are a big girl, and you have to take responsibility (that means you owe something to someone) for your acts, always remember: grownups should always try to fulfill their debts by NOT killing stuff.

I know it's complicated, so I'll break it down even further for your specific situation:

When you chose to make a baby, you created what you see as a choice...
You could KILL something and pretend you made good choices, and finish school.
Or, you could NOT kill stuff, wait nine months, and finish school.

So...why do you seem to gravitate toward the KILLING STUFF choice, when BOTH options still allow you to finish school...as if a piece of sheepskin was SOOOO precious that it blurs in value when compared to a human life? And if you choose to not kill stuff, and still are unable to fight your selfish streak, then let someone who MIGHT love the baby have it, and you still get your sheepskin without KILLING STUFF.
You could NOT kill something and stop making irresponsible choices. Then later, you could still finish school.

In every step of the way, you made choices to suit yourself that led to the creation of a baby. Can you not make just ONE choice for the baby and let it live? Not even for nine months, after which you can go fuck more deadbeats and make more selfish choices all you like...? Why is it so hard to just let the baby live?

1. Was working to save money for med. school. Only completed pre-med.

2. Sorry, but that statement is not true. Some people are chameleons, if they want something you have. Also, when one is dedicated and working hard toward a goal, one will easily become isolated and suseptible to less than genuine intentions from another.

3. You imply family is in position to help financially or to be useful. What if only family member is a destitute mom.

I can sure given more as a doctor than as an accidental mother.

4. Again, working to pay for med. school. Not there yet.

Yes, we do. Tell the boys!

5. And we hope that you and all of yours, live by this rule. But, you don't, do you.

6. Thank you, I'll kill the little bugger while it's brain synapses have not yet connected, and get on with this wonderful job of life. My genes are being passed on by my sibling's children, and I've no great desire to add to over-population.

7. Just playing devil's advocate.

But, your right. One could give up the babe for adoption and get back to work and school. But, those nine months of devotion and caring about nutrition, etc., cause ties to form. Adoption becomes another sweet decision one could regret terribly, later.

2. They are not rosie children!

How can you so mistake a poster's motives by seeing "intent to lie" in all postings you disagree with or that disagree with you. I think "opinion" is basically what we reply with. Maybe you attribute too much knowledge to ea. of us, or think that your writings are wholy adsorbed and digested.

Repeatedly identifying other's posting as "a lie" effectively belittles their efforts, instead of teaching or convincing them of new concepts.

3. It would not make you a hypocrite. Acknowledging the many shades of grey in an arguement is to recognize the improbability of certainty, and the imperfections in scientific observation, which often need reformulating.

4. No. Something is carrying you along and I choose to call it passion (I don't think you'd appreciate 'God's work'). And, though I've seen others do so, I don't recall ever even thinking of you as cold and heartless.

5. Yes, I become a slow, cumbersome drudge when someone tries to convince me of something I'm not ready to think or believe. And, something that is not in women's best interests.