Originally Posted by PaleRider

Doesn't matter, we're still going to make it a law that all pro lifers MUST take two laxatives every morning whether you need them or not. How's that for equality????

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Maybe, but since I am not obligated to take your advise...



Illegal Abortion Death Rates


When abortions are made illegal, women don't stop having abortions. Instead, they now must do them in an unsafe manner, leading to higher death rates.

The fact that abortion is illegal does not change the mind of a woman who needs to have an abortion. It only changes how she goes about getting it. There are many countries in the world where abortion is currently legal - there are many others where it is illegal. Women in BOTH countries have abortions.

In countries where the procedure is legal, the death rate is around 1 death per 100,000 abortions. In countries where abortion is illegal, the death rate can be 700 deaths per 100,000 abortions or higher. The World Health Organization estimates that a full third of ALL maternal deaths are caused by poorly done illegal abortions. That adds up to 200 women a day.

If 200 women a day were being shot by government leaders for wanting to have an abortion, there would be an outcry. However, when those 200 women a day die due to the government's policy, they die in back corners, bleeding, alone.

Pro-Choice Site @ BellaOnline


"Biochemist. Quite successful."

You are also" not obligated" to tell us you are a success. It has no bearing on this subject, except to make others experience your braggadocio. Who cares?

"I see both sides but there is only one truth."

Sounds more religious than scientific. Isn't this proselityzing?



"A death rate of 1 in 12,000. Go to your nearest bad neighborhood and kill someone at random. Tell the judge that he represented a 1 in 12,000 risk to your life and let me know how that works out for you. If a panel of doctors states that a woman should abort because there is a genuine risk to her life or long term health, then she has a valid reason to terminate. That accounts for about 2% of all abortions."



"These are things people know before engaging in sex. Being stigmatized is not a valid reason to kill another human being."

All sex is not as controllable as you make it out to be . People can be drunk, on drugs or just overemoting and get pregnant, even though they know the consequences.



"Again, not a valid reason to kill another human being."

Proof?

"Again, not a valid reason to kill another human being."

Proof?

"At least you recognize it as a privlege and not a right, but the right to live trumps all other explict, or implied rights."

Well...thanks, your honor.

"Since there are roughly 5 million laws on our books and every single one of them imposes someone elses thoughts and restrictions upon you, that line of logic fails on its face."

Why?

To have things your way would be to risk the lives of women and the unborn, to lower their standard of living, and to dictate to them in a free country. In essence, you want to deprive them of free choice to satisfy your principals.

Originally Posted by Lexi

Equality means everyone. You included.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

I have been involved in a discussion with a few ladies on another thread and it seems that their entire position on abortion rests, and depends upon the idea that unborns aren't alive.

This leads me to wonder how many folks there are who actually believe that there is a third state in which we can exist that is neither alive nor dead. There doesn't seem to be any real discussion among scientists, even those who are pro choice as to whether unborns are alive at any stage of development. There is a great deal of discussion as to whether it is OK to kill them, or use them in scientific experiments, but none with regard to whether or not they are alive.

In this other conversation, whenever one of these ladies suggested that unborns aren't alive, I asked for some sort of credible science to support their claim that they weren't alive or that there was some third state that we can exist in that is neither alive nor dead, but they never provided anything that resembled credible support for their position.


"What you can't seem to get in that nog of yours is that all that scientific mumbo jumbo you have doesn't mean shit. "

"Your "scientific facts" are worthless in the REAL WORLD...."

"a fetus is not alive. and I stand by everything I've said"

"fetuses aren't alive. deal with it."

"a fetus is pre-life. its not alive. "

"When life begins? Nope! You wont find credible scientific thought on it. It's not a medical/scientific question. "

"And, major medical schools, not the small ones affiliated with religious organizations, did not deal with issues of when life begins. At least up to 1971, they didn't."

"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk."

My question isn't whether it is OK to terminate a pregnancy, or whether it is OK to use embryos in scientific experiments. My question is whether or not you believe that we are alive from the time we are concieved; and if you don't believe that we are alive at any stage of our lives, what exactly, do you base this belief on?

Originally Posted by Battleborne

I think so...somewhere is the cosmos I was alive at sometime or another...

Originally Posted by Big Stevie

I'll have to say that, when dealing with Pro-Choice assholes, they could be right. The biggest arguement for Pro-Choice are the Pro-Choicers themselves. Personally, it sickens me to think of all of the LIVING unborn babies that have been brutally and cruelly MURDERED since the advent of Roe v. Wade.

Originally Posted by Lexi

At sometime or another ?? Probably but do you know exactly when?

Originally Posted by Battleborne

God told me when mom and dad did the nasty...then I would be on my way..floating around the clouds was fun and all...but damn I wanted to taste a burger,see a ball game..grow up and get into the mojo...'beer the food of the Gods'...next question!

Originally Posted by Lexi