I don't need cheerleaders, or encouragement to define me. I have dismantled every argument you have put forward and shown them to be the shams and logical fallacies that they are. If you need others to define you, that is your weakness, not mine.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

You have done absolutely NOTHING except quote science books and anyone can find that information if they want to. So what have you really done??

NOTHING..

I have proved you wrong which is what I set out to do from the beginning.

I have offered hard, credible science to support my postion and you have offered nothing but unsubstantiated, uncorroborated opinion which simply can't stand against demonstrable fact.

It is interesting to note that now you are screaming in larger brighter red than I ever did in an attempt to draw attention to yourself.

Do you believe that shouting will make you right since nothing else has worked?

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

*Knows that the only nutshells on this booard are anti-fetus*

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Gun control is giving criminals guns and taken guns away from law abiding citizens.

You're absolutely right that antibiotics has had a great effect on the number of women saved from abortion complications, but not enough to account for the difference in legal vs. illegal abortion.

"Some abortion opponents claim the declining mortality numbers are the result of improved antibiotics but this alone just won't cut it I'm afraid. Not particularly in examining the numbers from the 1970's."

"Those claiming improved technology, or medications, or technique, or training were the cause of the decrease in mortality folowing Roe need to explain why the numbers of deaths from abortions plummeted by comparison with the slow decline in the number of deaths from childbirth.

In fact the last time it was more dangerous to have an abortion than to carry to term in the US was 1970 - three years before Roe.
What these charts very accurately shows is that the one result of legalizing abortion is that the mortality rate from the procedure plummeted"

You have never proved me wrong and you know it. Nothing in any of the scientific data could prove that a sac of blood and cells is a living breathing human being.

As for the "shouting, No, I just wanted you to see how silly that made you look when you did it to me..

Are you aware that in the year before Roe a grand total of 39 women died as the result of illegal abortions? According to the CDC, the numbers were about the same for the previous decade. The numbers of deaths plummeted after the introduction of antibiotics.

Legalizing or banning abortion has never had any great influence on the number of women who died as a result of the proceedure. The mortality rate has always been a product of medical technology. The numbers of deaths did not decrease appreciably after roe from the time prior to roe.

According to the United States Centers for Disease Control, in the year before Roe vs. Wade (1972), there were 39 deaths from illegal abortions. In the year after Roe vs. Wade (1974), there were 26 deaths from legal abortions


TABLE 19. Number of deaths and case-fatality rates* for abortion-related deaths
reported to CDC, by type of abortion -- United States, 1972-1992
================================================== ==============================================
No. of deaths
-----------------------------------------------
Type of abortion
---------------------------------------
Induced
--------------- Case-fatality
Year Legal Illegal Spontaneous+ Unknown Total rate*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1972 24 39 25 2 90 4.1
1973 25 19 10 3 57 4.1
1974 26 6 21 1 54 3.4
1975 29 4 14 1 48 3.4
1976 11 2 13 1 27 1.1
1977 17 4 16 0 37 1.6
1978 9 7 9 0 25 0.8
1979 22 0 8 0 30 1.8
1980 9 1 6 2 18 0.7
1981 8 1 3 0 12 0.6
1982 11 1 5 0 17 0.8
1983 11 1 7 0 19 0.9
1984 12 0 5 0 17 0.9
1985 11 1 8 1 21 0.8
1986 11 0 5 2 18 0.8
1987 7 2 8 0 17 0.5
1988 16 0 7 0 23 1.2
1989 12 1 3 0 16 0.9
1990 5 0 5 0 10 0.3
1991 11 1 6 0 18 0.8
1992 10 0 17 0 27 0.7

Total 297 90 201 13 601 1.2

Abortion Surveillance -- United States, 1996

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

The fact that you deny hard credible science in favor of your beliefs says all about you that needs to be said. Cough... flat earther.. cough. When you deny credible science, you lose any crediblity that you might have had.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

[quote=naturemomma;322330]


The term Back Alley Abotion is used to refer to the many many women who died in nasty apartments, cars or vans, or by the hands of unlawful dr's, husbands, the women themselves, coat hangers, or those abortions induced hy herbs. Any and all of these were considered at the time to be "Back Alley Abortions"

People, when referring to abortion, didn't have the time to name all the ways in which women were dying (imagine that) so instead they created a catch all phrase.


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Absolutely correct, and many times the women were abandoned to die, if the abortion went wrong and there was hemohrraging, for example. That is, at the very least, 2nd. degree murder, in my opinion.
I doubt if we will ever know how many illegal abortions there were.

When women were abandoned as you have described, autopsys were performed and even back in the very early 1900's, a woman who died from a botched abortion could be easily identified by a coroner and reported as such. We may never know how many illegal abortions there were, but we can know how many died as a result of them.

The fact that there aren't great numbers of them after antibiotics became common is proof that the back alley abortion is a myth. The man who coined the term has admitted as much. He has admitted that he knew the numbers were completely bogus, but he felt that the ends justified the means and telling the lie was not nearly as bad as not having legal abortion.

The "back alley" butchers as they are called were the very doctors who closed their family practices and opened abortion clinics after roe.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma