Those are all facts, solid facts. Yet, you don't have a fact.

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Gun control is giving criminals guns and taken guns away from law abiding citizens.

[quote=naturemomma;322256]Your argument has changed several times, I wasn't here in 2006 so I can't speak to that. What I know now is that your argument was the protection of babies - then only unborn babies - then fetal pain - then the laws defended your cause - then there were no back alley abortions - well, now that we have put an end to all of those fallacies, you have nothing. Though I am sure you will continue on the quest of bullshit in grannies basement.[/quote[

You are a liar. My entire position is based on three things that have never changed. First, unborns are living human beings from the time they are concieved. Second, human beings have a right to live. Third, all rights are secondary to the right to live.

All of the side tracks have simply been to prove that your position is based on falsehoods. I have never said that abortion is ok if the child is unable to feel pain. I pointed out that the back alley abortion myth is exactly that.

And once again. Since you don't have any idea of what I do or do not do, you are just bloviating. Since my civic activities have nothing to do with the issue of unborns being denied their most basic human right, I don't feel the need to bring them here. I don't need to be recognized for what I do. If I did, then I would be doing it for the wrong reasons.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

You defeated your own argument here wyfe. If the unborn has to "trick" (your characterization) the mother into believing that it is part of her so that her body doesn't kill it, then it stands to reason that it is not part of her body. The fact that her body believes it is part of her doesn't make it part of her.

Are you suggesting that a pregnant woman is a chimera? You do realize that when such a thing happens, the two sets of DNA can never be separated don't you?

Of course you can pinpoint the time when an individual's life began. You can trace your existence as an individual human being back to the time of your conception. Attempt to go any further than that and you don't exist. Your fathers sperm existed and your mother's egg existed, but not you. You, as the individual you are were never sperm and you were never an egg. You were, however a zygote. You didn't come from a zygote, you actually were a zygote and since being a zygote is your earliest possible physical existence as the individual you are, it is clear that is when your life began.

Sorry, they are separate individuals. Even the law recognizes them as individual. They get separate identification. They have separate birth certificates, etc. etc. They are connected but being connected doesn't mean that they aren't individuals.

There is a difference between being dependent and being "part" of. We can go round and round on this issue but thus far, I am the only one that has provided credible evidence that unborns are separate living individuals. References from medical textbooks stating explicitly that conception marks the beginning of an individual's life. Unless you can provide some equally credible science that states otherwise, I am afraid that you really have to be a grown up and conceed the point.

I didn't say that her body recognizes it as foriegn, I said that it is classified as foriegn.

Name another reason not to proceed with the execution.


All rights are secondary to the right to live. Unless you can prove that an unborn is not a living human being, then your argument is lost because no right that anyone might claim outweighs one's right to live so long as one isn't threatening someone else's life.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

You don't do shit, you just thought of that comeback after being asked for weeks about what it is you do for your cause. What you do for the cause you support, is very valid. I am not suprised you can't see that. If you did do something, I am sure you would understand the importance of it.

Back alley abortion is not a myth, it was a term used. When will you idiots understand that?

I already posted about this earlier, why am I not surprised that once again just ignore valid information.

Here let me post it on this thread for you as well.....

This was posted on the "this isn't about abortion but I didn't know where else to put it" thread. Post # 97

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
LOL, that was one of you and Pales arguments, back-alley abortions were myths.. You both were saying that never happened and now your saying there WILL STILL BE BACK-ALLEY ABORTIONS... So much for credibility on you and pales part...

Lexi, what many freaks are too stupid to understand is the term "Back Alley Abortion" - was simply that a term. A catch phrase if you will.

The term Back Alley Abotion is used to refer to the many many women who died in nasty apartments, cars or vans, or by the hands of unlawful dr's, husbands, the women themselves, coat hangers, or those abortions induced hy herbs. Any and all of these were considered at the time to be "Back Alley Abortions"
People, when referring to abortion, didn't have the time to name all the ways in which women were dying (imagine that) so instead they created a catch all phrase.

So, to all the dumb pro-lifers who want to keep throwing this "term" out there as though you are making some high and mighty fuckin' point, please educate yourselves, because you don't know what you are talking about.
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Who would Jesus Bomb?

Of coarse it hurts. Your being screwed by an elephant.


But you never responded to that post, on that thread, did ya? Wuss.
Ya know, I don't know if you are a woman or a man, but given either - you need to read up on the history of the women in this country, as well as others. You're completely inept in this area, and you continue to prove so.

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A house divided against itself, cannot stand.
-Abraham Lincoln

I did respond. I responded with an answer that put the lie to the whole myth. If all of these women died as the result of "back alley" abortions where are the statistics to prove it. When people die unexpectedly, autopsys are performed to determine thier cause of death. If a woman has died from a botched abortion, a coroner (even one who was operating in the 1920's) would be able to tell and he would have reported the death as resulting from a botched abortion. Thousands upon thousands of such deaths would have resulted in thousands upon thousands of coroners reports.

The reports don't exist because the deaths were a myth. The day after roe was decided the "back alley butchers" closed their practices and opened family practice clinics. Coathangers and back alley abortions were a myth. If women had died in the numbers you suggest, there would be coroner's records to support them.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

JAMA July 29, 1939 has maternal mortality statistics from 1933-1937:


Year Septic non-septic
Abortion abortion
Deaths deaths Total Maternal Deaths
1933 2037 640 12885
1934 2204 570 12859
1935 2167 602 12544
1936 1801 680 12182
1937 1531 582 10769

Feets don't fail me now!!!

And there isn't a single doctor or scientist who will argue that those deaths were due to lack of modern sterilization proceedures and antibiotics. With the advent of modern antibiotics and sterile proceedures, those figures fell through the floor.

Instead of going back to a time when stepping on a nail or having a tooth pulled represented a real threat to your health, how about providing some numbers that reflect abortion deaths due to "back alley" butchers in more modern times when antibiotics and modern sterile proceedures were the norm. Penicillin was developed in the 1950's. Lets see the figures from the 50's and compare them to the 1930's. Providing numbers from a time 20 years before antibiotics were readily available isn't really intellectually honest.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

One only needs to run if one hasn't done one's homework. Antibiotics are why the number of deaths fell, not legalized abortion.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

And the Paleone rides alone...LOL