Roe is unconstitutional

36shadow · #**491** (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturemomma

Ditto.
I think it's great that she is in martial arts. Both my girls are as well, it's fundamental. It has taught my girls patience, honor and respect. Believe me, that investment will pay off!

She has an upper hand I'm the teacher. What form do they study?

wolf_22 · #**492** (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Killing another person because you lacked the foresight to consider the possible consequences of your actions qualifies as responsiblity in your way of thinking?

Your description of them suggests otherwise. Suggesting that because sex is a part of life that women have no power to simply say no is suggesting that they are just stupid. And killing another human being is not being responsible. Accepting that your actions have resulted in another human being who, like you, has one and only one life and giving that person the opportunity to live that life is being responsible. Killing it for your own convenience is not. You have a lot of growing up to do if this is your idea of being responsible.

as I said before- its never good to ruin one's life and its not good to bring someone into the world when they will suffer. each individual woman must examine her own life and determine what is best

Ignorant, uneducated people don't see an embryo as a child. Anyone who is educated to the level of the 4th or 5th grade should reaonably be expected to know that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved. Anyone who doesn't know that is either ignorant, or self delusional. Which camp do you fall in?

Of course losing everything you have is an inconvenience. It is a major league inconvenience. But it is not a valid reason to kill another human being.

Of course you did. You suggested that getting pregnant was a mistake. Having sex is a sure fire way to get pregnant. If you aren't prepared to deal with all of the consequences of having sex, then you shouldn't do it? Do you go around stepping off of tall buildings? My bet is that you don't and you don't because you aren't really prepared to deal with the consequences of stepping off of a tall building. Women like you have sex, get pregnant, and then expect someone else to bear the responsibility of your actions by forfieting their one and only life.

no women like me have sex and use protection. we know the risks and the options. and we agree to deal with both the good and bad. if I ever becoem pregnant unintentionally I will be responcible and do what is best for everyone involved. I will deal with all the consequences and not blame anyone but me and my partner. that is being responcible

Euthanasia and suicide are not killing another human being with intent. There is a difference between killing yourself and killing someone else.

euthanasia is killing someone else to put them out of their misery. you can't euthanize yourself. abortion could be seen as the euthanazing of a "child" by its parent(s).

fetuses aren't alive. deal with it.
its not that hard.

you can think they have souls- go nuts! but that doesn't make them alive.

why don't you just do something useful and help people who are currently alive now and need it?

PaleRider · #**493** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

as I said before- its never good to ruin one's life and its not good to bring someone into the world when they will suffer. each individual woman must examine her own life and determine what is best

So in your view ruining one's own life is worse than ending someone else's life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

no women like me have sex and use protection. we know the risks and the options. and we agree to deal with both the good and bad. if I ever becoem pregnant unintentionally I will be responcible and do what is best for everyone involved. I will deal with all the consequences and not blame anyone but me and my partner. that is being responcible

Do women like you realize the failure rate of contraceptives? And how is ending the new life you are responsible for the best thing for everyone involved? That life is involved and ending it isn't best for it. I understand that you are selfish and self centered and only thing of how things affect you without consideration for others, but you could at least admit it rather than attempting to convince me that you are really conserned about anyone but yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

euthanasia is killing someone else to put them out of their misery. you can't euthanize yourself. abortion could be seen as the euthanazing of a "child" by its parent(s).

euthanasia - n - Also called mercy killing. the act of putting to death painlessly or allowing to die, as by withholding extreme medical measures, a person or animal suffering from an incurable, esp. a painful, disease or condition.

Just one more example of your intellectual dishonesty. Euthanasia can be construed as a mercy. Killing for your own convenience can not. Is there no limit to how far you will debase your intellect in an effort to make your point? No offense wolf, but on this subject, in your need to justify your position, you defile your intellect as surely as a crack whore demeans and dishonors herself for another high. Why would you do that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

fetuses aren't alive. deal with it.

This is one of those places where you defile and debase your intellect and for what? No one, not even you, actually believes that unborns are not alive or human beings. It is like shouting at the top of your lungs that the earth is made of cheese. The only people who agree with you are people who are also willing to defile their own intellects. If it were really a point of contention, you would be justified but the fact that you can't provide any credible science that says that they aren't alive while I can provide mountains of evidence that they are is evidence enough that even among the pro choice community, there is no contention.

A being simply can not grow from a single cell to a seven or eight pound infant, have functioning organs, move and react to stimulus without being alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

you can think they have souls- go nuts! but that doesn't make them alive.

I have never suggested anything about souls. That is from your own side of the argument.

I challenge you to provide some proof that they are alive, or stop debasing yourself by suggesting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

why don't you just do something useful and help people who are currently alive now and need it?

I do, but what I do, however, is irrelavent to this conversation. The people that you suggest that I help have not been denied their most basic human right. The people who you suggest that I help don't have intellectual crack whores denying that they are living human beings so that they can be killed without consequence.

PaleRider · #**494** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 05:21 AM

wolf, naturemomma, lexi and marmalade, I have a question to ask you in all seriousness and would appreciate a serious answer.

What does the term intellectual honesty mean to you?

PaleRider · #**495** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

"Credible science" is definately not mumbo jumbo but a lot of what of you quote from liars is not "credible science" , just an opinion of a proven liar.

What have I quoted from a liar? Which one of the medical textbooks that I have quoted that states explictly that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved do you believe is lying, and on what basis do you make that charge.

Point out a single thing I have quoted that is a lie and show some credible proof that it is a lie. Saying a thing is a lie is meaningless unless you can prove that it is a lie, or at least give a credible reason to believe it might be a lie. Just saying so isn't enough.

I could have just sat back and said over and over that we are living human beings from the time we are concieved, but if that is the best I could do, why bother. I have no proof and there is no reason someone should beleive me. I am not just saying it though. I brought medical textooks used in medical schools all around the world that say exactly what I am saying as evidence. Just saying that they aren't true is just stupid. If you believe they aren't true, then bring the contradictory evidence here upon which you base your position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexi

"And you still need to educate yourself on human nature, you're sorely lacking in that area

You, naturemomma, marmalade, and wolf are giving me a fine education on human nature. You four have shown a willingness to debase and defile your intellects to levels lower than a crack whore will defile her body. You will say anything, even that medical textbooks are liars, in order to hold on to a point that even you know is not true. Most pro choicers, when confronted with undeniable proof that their arguments are simply wrong will simply leave the conversation or, in the very rare case, will actually change their minds, but you four, just keep going lower and lower and lower.

Why would anyone debase themselves to the degree that you four have in order to hold onto a belief (unborns aren't living human beings) that can be proven false with so little effort?

PaleRider · #**496** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

this is a shitty analogy. once again are you afraid to admit that murder is usually a street crime while most illegal abortions would be done at home

Sorry guy, most murders are committed either in one's own home or someone elses home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

Not by much and what world do you live on where most people obey dumb laws like jaywalking, thats how most people would think of an anti-abortion law

Jaywalking gets you a $25 dollar fine. An illegal abortion would get you in prison. Only the really stupid among us would believe the two were similar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

I'd love to see you in a war zone. You could talk about how people were breaking the law while they blew your brains out

I have been to war carson. I served 2 tours in a light infantry unit in Viet Nam. Your stupid comment reveals how little you know about anything.

naturemomma · #**497** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

She has an upper hand I'm the teacher. What form do they study?

Karate.
My youngest, I worry about. She's the tough one. The first time she broke the board she got this glimmer in her eye - she knew she could do anything, before that, after that - forget 'bout it. She works at something until it is conquered. she's a fighter. She kept falling off the monkey bars when she was 3, so dad helped her, she'd get pissed and make him back up, she'd fall and get right back up. Now, she has calouses all over her hands from the monkey bars. She won. It's the little battles that we must encourage them to fight and win.

My oldest was surprised she broke the board, she has been the type that needs lots of encouragement and support. She has to be convinced of her talents. She has come a very long way. She is also the compassionate one, patient and caring.

The sensei said this lesson shows what they are made of. He was right. My girls are polar opposites, they have each gained something different from this experience. But in the end, they both have gained confidence, just in different ways - if that makes sense?

I agree with everything else you said also. Kids need to be shown and encouraged. They will never believe in their abilities unless the parents prove it to them.

wolf_22 · #**498** (**permalink**) 02-22-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

So in your view ruining one's own life is worse than ending someone else's life?
in my view someone with little to no future may not be the best care-giver to someone who is totally dependent on them. its also my view that when you have kids they come first- but until you are ready to stop being the most important person in your life, you shouldn't have children.

Do women like you realize the failure rate of contraceptives? And how is ending the new life you are responsible for the best thing for everyone involved? That life is involved and ending it isn't best for it. I understand that you are selfish and self centered and only thing of how things affect you without consideration for others, but you could at least admit it rather than attempting to convince me that you are really conserned about anyone but yourself.
I know the failure rates.
it much worse to bring a child into this world who you can't care for than to have an abortion.

euthanasia - n - Also called mercy killing. the act of putting to death painlessly or allowing to die, as by withholding extreme medical measures, a person or animal suffering from an incurable, esp. a painful, disease or condition.

Just one more example of your intellectual dishonesty. Euthanasia can be construed as a mercy. Killing for your own convenience can not. Is there no limit to how far you will debase your intellect in an effort to make your point? No offense wolf, but on this subject, in your need to justify your position, you defile your intellect as surely as a crack whore demeans and dishonors herself for another high. Why would you do that?

This is one of those places where you defile and debase your intellect and for what? No one, not even you, actually believes that unborns are not alive or human beings. It is like shouting at the top of your lungs that the earth is made of cheese. The only people who agree with you are people who are also willing to defile their own intellects. If it were really a point of contention, you would be justified but the fact that you can't provide any credible science that says that they aren't alive while I can provide mountains of evidence that they are is evidence enough that even among the pro choice community, there is no contention.
A being simply can not grow from a single cell to a seven or eight pound infant, have functioning organs, move and react to stimulus without being alive.

I have never suggested anything about souls. That is from your own side of the argument.

I challenge you to provide some proof that they are alive, or stop debasing yourself by suggesting it.

I do, but what I do, however, is irrelavent to this conversation. The people that you suggest that I help have not been denied their most basic human right. The people who you suggest that I help don't have intellectual crack whores denying that they are living human beings so that they can be killed without consequence.sounds like a cop out

a fetus is not alive. and I stand by everything I've said

PaleRider · #**499** (**permalink**) 02-23-2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

in my view someone with little to no future may not be the best care-giver to someone who is totally dependent on them. its also my view that when you have kids they come first- but until you are ready to stop being the most important person in your life, you shouldn't have children

When you have kids, they come first? Unless, of course, you decide to kill them, right? And if you aren't prepared to care for someone, you turn that care over to someone else, you don't kill them because you are an irresponsible, selfish child who believes the entire point of the world is to provide for your own self gratification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

I know the failure rates.
it much worse to bring a child into this world who you can't care for than to have an abortion.

There is no such thing in this country as "not being able to care for" a child. There is "won't" care for a child, or "don't want to" care for a child but there is no "can't" care for a child in the US. The argument fails because it is based on a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

a fetus is not alive. and I stand by everything I've said

Most liars stand by their lies. That is what makes them liars. You and your fellow liars have said it over and over. I have said that they are alive, but I have offered credible proof to support my position. To date, you have offered nothing because there is no credible science to support you. You are a flat earther. Nothing more. Closing your eyes, clapping your hands over your ears and shouting LA LA LA to keep from hearing the truth.

wolf_22 · #**500** (**permalink**) 02-23-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

When you have kids, they come first? Unless, of course, you decide to kill them, right? And if you aren't prepared to care for someone, you turn that care over to someone else, you don't kill them because you are an irresponsible, selfish child who believes the entire point of the world is to provide for your own self gratification.

a fetus isn't a child. and foster care is not a place anyone wants someone to be. abortion has its consequences and its the hardest choice most women can ever have to make. until you have been there you shouldn't talk. you have no idea what its like

There is no such thing in this country as "not being able to care for" a child. There is "won't" care for a child, or "don't want to" care for a child but there is no "can't" care for a child in the US. The argument fails because it is based on a lie.
that is not true. I don't even know how to respond to something as assinine as that

Most liars stand by their lies. That is what makes them liars. You and your fellow liars have said it over and over. I have said that they are alive, but I have offered credible proof to support my position. To date, you have offered nothing because there is no credible science to support you. You are a flat earther. Nothing more. Closing your eyes, clapping your hands over your ears and shouting LA LA LA to keep from hearing the truth.

you don't even know the function of frontal lobes. you keep saying a fetus can feel pain before week 14. I've always been consistant and have presented both facts and my personal opinion