Roe is unconstitutional

Carson · #**191** (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

You really aren't very bright are you? You keep saying this over and over as if it means something. It does, sorry if you were not keen enough to catch it the first three times I said it, I'm not gonna help u No crime can be stopped by making a law. The law isn't about stopping a behavior. The law is about having a means to punish those who engage in the behavior. What is it about that concept that you find so difficult to comprehend? So what penalty do u mean to impose on a women breaking the abortion law?

Murder hasn't stopped because it is against the law. You can go out and murder anyone you choose and the law can't stop you from doing it. The law gives us a means to punish you appropriately if you decide to do it anyway.

You really think we should put people who get abortions in prison? Do u know we already got a prison population problem and u wanna add millions more a year. Impossible, but I'm not surprised a fool like you would think something like this

Carson · #**192** (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

You really aren't very bright are you? You keep saying this over and over as if it means something. It does, sorry if you were not keen enough to catch it the first three times I said it, I'm not gonna help u No crime can be stopped by making a law. The law isn't about stopping a behavior. The law is about having a means to punish those who engage in the behavior. What is it about that concept that you find so difficult to comprehend? So what penalty do u mean to impose on a women breaking the abortion law?

Murder hasn't stopped because it is against the law. You can go out and murder anyone you choose and the law can't stop you from doing it. The law gives us a means to punish you appropriately if you decide to do it anyway.

You really think we should put people who get abortions in prison? Do u know we already got a prison population problem and u wanna add millions more a year. Impossible, but I'm not surprised a fool like you would think something like this

The abortion police thats fucking hilarious

StormanNorman · #**193** (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Because abortion is not a constitutional right.

No, but privacy is.

Quote:

Because even in 1972 the perponderance of the evidence from medical science was that unborns are human beings at any stage of development.

I guess the courts disagreed with them. Personally, I don't know if I buy that they are human beings....I guess it depends on the stage of development....at least, to me.

Quote:

Name one or two other situations in which an implied right outweighs an explicit right.

Say, I'm walking down the public street with my "I'm the Lone Ranger of the AWE liberal elites" T-shirt on and some guy who obviously doesn't like liberals starts screaming at me...and then follows me down the street still screaming telling me how much he hates liberals. Now, some would argue that he has that right, e.g., that's his freedom of speech. However, at some point, it would become harassment...why? Because I have a right to and some expectation of privacy.

A more common example is the doctor/patient privilege. That has been invoked often even during capital murder trials when someone clearly lost their right to pursue happiness.

Quote:

It was not their place to find a balance as abortion was not, and never has been and even now is not a constitutional right.

But privacy is or later became one and that was the issue. Does the right to privacy extend to abortion?

Dom1 · #**194** (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upton

Don't like the conclusions reached in the paper, do you? That's too bad, but numbers don't lie.

Here's more from Steve Levitt the coauthor of "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime"

"The theoretical justification for our argument rests on two simple assumptions: 1) Legalized abortion leads to fewer "unwanted" babies being born, and 2) unwanted babies are more likely to suffer abuse and neglect and are therefore at an increased risk for criminal involvement later in life. The first assumption, that abortion reduces the number of unwanted children, is true virtually by definition. The second assumption, that unwanted children are at increased risk for criminal involvement, is supported by three decades of academic research. If one accepts these two assumptions, then a direct mechanism by which the legalization of abortion can reduce crime has been established."

Does Abortion Prevent Crime? - By Steven Levitt and Steve Sailer - Slate Magazine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upton

This is not a poll, "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime" is a paper by economist Steven Levitt of the University of Chicago and John Donohue of Yale University.

Take a look at it: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

I read that book also. This has been discussed on here before and you might want to take a look, or maybe not. Either way, it is here:

Abortion and Crime?

Numbers can say what you want them to say in many instances, and statistics can be used any number of ways to produce the outcome that you want. While the numbers may be correct I wouldn't go so far as saying they prove anything.

wolf_22 · #**195** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

As much as I do not like it I do conceid that your right it will happen even if you don't allow it. I can also admit that young women can get tricked into sex or sort of say and before they know it they are like oh and would never did it again but they get pregnant. I am not with out complete compasion but it is for many a hard teter toter. I guess I would then have to say that a good way to go is to give society an inama and put a stop to all of this right there in our face promiscuity etc. etc. and good hard morals instiled at home. Damn you made me do something I was not adding into the equastion my daughter. Hell no matter what I would not want her to go to a doctor behind my back and the law to get an abortion and she died as a result. This is a hard suject I will still not conceide what I find to be a childish arguement. That life does not start at conception. I guess I have to look above my own personal beliefs now I feel pulled in two directions.

thinking about abortion is easier for me to do than you for two reasons-
I'm a girl and I do not have any children yet.

things change when you have kids. when you are young you really want more child rights and privleges, when you get a bit older you realize kids might need more rights but have enough privledges, and when you have kids you want to stop them for doing 90% of the things you did and/or wanted to do as a kid.

(I'm curious now and might just check how many child advocate attorneys there are with children. its easy to want to give kids freedom until you are the parent.)

wolf_22 · #**196** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleRider

Let me be the first to congratulate you, and suggest that you continue to break that law as often as possible, and might I suggest that you start disregarding speed limits in conjunction with your anti seat belt protest.

breaking the speed limit endangers others. but seat belts on endanger myself.
there should be no laws protecting us from ourselves- only protecting us and our property from others.

same with abortions- worry about your body and not mine and not anyone elses.

honey I have medical proff that fetuses do not feel anything until week 14.
and medical proff that females are alive, have feelings, thoughts, and a right to their bodies

wolf_22 · #**197** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sour_claw

Just because something is legal does not make it right or moral. Legally I can lie to everyone I see today but that doesn't justify my actions.

Tell yourself whatever you want if it lets you sleep at night. People can justify nearly any action.

And if you go punch a pregnant woman in the belly killing her child that she was not planning on aborting, I bet she woulld call it murder.

morals are not part of the law.
morals vary person to person. there is no way to give people freedom while picking one moral code and legislating it.

just because someone feels something is 'murder' or otherwise henious doesn't make it so in the eyes of the law. if we were able to choose what charge to give people who wronged us, our justice system would have no foundation.

now as far as slavery goes-
black people are alive. we never debated that. we debated their equality.
a fetus is not alive. it doesn't think or feel. (but the woman whose body it is occupying does).
and yes if we left things up to the people slavery wouldn't have ended when it did nor would segregation.

why are you so concerned with what another person does with her body?

bluedog · #**198** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

breaking the speed limit endangers others. but seat belts on endanger myself.
there should be no laws protecting us from ourselves- only protecting us and our property from others.

same with abortions- worry about your body and not mine and not anyone elses.

honey I have medical proff that fetuses do not feel anything until week 14.
and medical proff that females are alive, have feelings, thoughts, and a right to their bodies

Just who then, looks out for the life of the unborn? The one breaking the speed limit? It sure is not the one's that supposed to be upholding an unalienable right to life. Always we seem to be placing personal choice as paramount to the fact of life itself. Even a so called right to privacy does not allow anyone to kill another to protect this right. Does it? Is this implied in the constitution any where? So, by just what well does any draw upon to have this right to kill, because they have 92% of the time chosen to have another life living within them and then decided to kill that life for only the reason of social concern? Is this what is meant by SOCIALISM? If there is no freedom to have life, just what does the personal right of privacy protect? This then is no longer a democracy, but a state of fascism, as we have taken a whole group of our society and presented them to be non human by the stroke of a pen, of course this is represented by the 1.6 million unborn lives that are taken each year, by the legality of opinion only. BD

PaleRider · #**199** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

Your a fucking idiot, do u every venture out into the real world? If you don't own yourself then somebody else owns u. It almost sounds like your advocating slavery here

The genius (not) speaks again. You don't own yourself and there is plenty of legal precedent to support that statement. You can start by reviewing Moore v. Regents of the University of California (1990). In that case, the court established the precedent that you have no property rights in your body.

More recently, William Catalona, a prostate cancer surgeon who worked at Washington University in St. Louis, tried to take a collection of 3,500 tissue samples that he had amassed over decades to another university. A court found that the tissue donors never had any property rights in their tissue, and so the collection belonged to Washington University. Neither the donors nor Catalona could legally force the university to cede possession to anyone else.

There are other cases as well that establish precedent that neither you, nor anyone else can own your body and if you were even a quarter as smart as you seem to believe you are then you could look into your own statement and see that by suggesting that a human body can be "owned" by anyone then it is you who is advocating slavery. If you owned your body, then it is concievable that you could lose it in payment for a debt that you could not repay. If no one owns you, including yourself, then slavery, either voluntary, or involuntary is out of the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN YOU IGNORANT FUCK ABORTION CAN'T BE STOPPED, KINDA LIKE THE TERMINATOR

Didn't you see the movie? The terminator was stopped. You aren't even bright enough to name a thing that really can't be stopped.

PaleRider · #**200** (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carson

You really think we should put people who get abortions in prison? Do u know we already got a prison population problem and u wanna add millions more a year. Impossible, but I'm not surprised a fool like you would think something like this

I would suggest turning out non violent drug offenders to make room for those who kill innocent children. And I would impose a heavier penalty on the doctor that actually does the killing than the woman who hires him but both should rightly be punished for conspiring to kill another human being.