Originally Posted by sour_claw

Is abortion a product of Eugenics?

I think so.

Originally Posted by Upton

OK, here's a quote from Steve Levitt who along with John Donohue authored the paper, "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime"

"Our preliminary research suggests that the effect of abortion legalization is large. According to our estimates, as much as one-half of the remarkable decline in crime in the 1990s may be attributable to the legalization of abortion."

Full paper right here: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

Originally Posted by sour_claw

Notice where most "planned parenthood" slaughterhouses are located? Poor and minority neighbourhoods.

There is a reason and I do not approve.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

I am afraid that you are wrong there. A series of things have happened, and are in the process of happening that will bring roe down. Most pro choicers aren't familiar with Roe v Wade in any real way beyond a passage or two that they get from their pro choice buds who also aren't familiar with Roe.

In his majority decision, Justice Blackmun laid a land mine that he may or may not have known would eventually cause the Roe decision to be reversed. He wrote:

"The appellee and certain amici argue that the fetus is a "person" within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment. In support of this, they outline at length and in detail the well known facts of fetal development. If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses, [p157] for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment. The appellant conceded as much on reargument."

I am not sure if you are aware, but in legal terms, the word person and human being are interchangable. Refer to legal dictionaries if you have doubts. So in essence, Roe was decided on the basis that unborns are not human beings and therefore not persons and he states explicitly that if the suggestion of personhood of the unborn is established, that Roe would collapse.

Well, it is no longer possible to make a credible argument that unborns are something other than human beings but aside from that; there are people in prison today, who were charged, tried, and convicted of killing unborns while in the process of committing some other federal crime. In fact, the text of Laci & Connor's Law, otherwise known as the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, signed into law in 2004 states that anyone who knowingly, or unknowingly kills or injures an unborn is guilty of a crime equal to the crime comitted against its mother.

In fact, the law specifically calls unborns children.

clip:

(d) As used in this section, the term `unborn child' means a child in utero, and the term `child in utero' or `child, who is in utero' means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.

I am not sure how familiar you are with our legal system, but you can not be charged, tried, or convicted of either manslaughter or murder unless you have killed a person. I don't know exactly how this law got by the pro choice lobby, but it has, in effect, and in reality established the personhood of the unborn and the fact that people are in jail right now having been convicted of manslaughter and murder for killing unborns has established legal precedent for the personhood of the unborn.

Recently, the Suprememe Court upheld a ban on very late term abortions. Very late term abortions have been legal since a year after Roe was heard. In effect, some abortions have been banned. In addition, there are multiple cases working thier way through the lower courts that have been chosen specifically to further strengthen the case for personhood of the unborn and knock the legs out from under Roe v Wade.

You may also have noticed that the face of the Supreme Court is decidedly more conservative than it has been in a very long time. Establishing the personhood of the unborn has taken a very long time to engineer, but it has been done and there is a growing body of legal precedent to solidify the concept. That landmine laid by Justice Blackmun way back in the Roe decision has been ticking for over 3 decades now and is very close to going off.

Originally Posted by GoRightAndYouCan'tGoWrong

Pale, for the sake of the next 40 million unwanted babies, I hope this it true. I have read several articles & books on or about Blackmun & the one conclusion that I came to was that he went to great lengths to find a way to dehumanize unborn babies. After he died, his notes were released and they made it undeniable that Blackmun, and the majority of the Supreme Court, found a right to abortion because that is what they set out to find.

Originally Posted by PaleRider

No doubt. Roe was without question one of the sloppiest decisions that the court ever made.

Originally Posted by Upton

OK, here's a quote from Steve Levitt who along with John Donohue authored the paper, "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime"

"Our preliminary research suggests that the effect of abortion legalization is large. According to our estimates, as much as one-half of the remarkable decline in crime in the 1990s may be attributable to the legalization of abortion."

Full paper right here: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...alized2001.pdf

Originally Posted by GoRightAndYouCan'tGoWrong

I can research just about anything then claim it suggest something more.

It's a rediculous argument.

There are many factors that can bring down the crime rate, not should have's & could have's.

There can be no difinative proof to a claim such as this. Other than that "illegal abortions" aren't being preformed, thus bringing this particular crime rate down. If that is what you mean?