My point with the kidneys is that the government will not allow you to sell your body parts to the highest bidder. Some guy tried to sell his kindey on e-Bay, but the government got involved. Why? If women are allowed to make a choice to abort a baby, shouldn't I be allowed to sell one of my body parts? It's my choice and body.

What's the difference between aborting that you know is gay and female, and aborting a baby that you know nothing about? Is it any better to abort a baby without knowing the gender?

I disagree with saying that the choice is not about the fetus. It seems to me that it is. Because of the choice that you made to have sex, whether it be protected or not, you open up the door to becoming preggy. It just seems to me that people that are "pro-choice" should be lucky that their parents did not make that "choice" for them.

__________________
Diversity: The exclusion of White people

Seperation of Church and State: No religious displays...except those of Islam.

Racism: The act of a White Person discriminating against a person of actual color; a person of color (i.e., a minority) cannot perform this act.

thats exactly what I am saying- the goc should not get involved with what you can do with your body. I stil believe that the kidney thing is a unique case- and unique cases are treated differently than others- it involves maultible persons and goes against the established medical procedures which are in place in order to protect people from discrimination. it is literally depiriving poor people of the right to live.

there is a difference. abortions are generally performed in these ways:
1-termination due unhealthy fetuses
2-termination due unhealthy females
3-termination due to rape
4- termination due to lack of preparation or capabilties of the female and/or male

we're beginning to dirft into the waters of genocide when it comes to gender-specific abortions and sexual orienation specific abortions. we're also working toward creating a master race and/or allowing parents to create perfect/designer children.
there are doctors who have no issue with this (and sperm banks too. they sell 'super' sperm) but for many its an ethical issue.

a fetus can't think. I don't see it as being alive. I see it as pre-life. to me it is much closer to a sperm cell or ovum- and we don't arrest women for murder if they have their periods or arrest men for mass murder (millions!) if they masturbate. those two activities also do prevent life.
if we treat fetuses like people than we will have to inspect every tampon or pad for possible abortions and miscarriages. a miscarriage would be murder or at the very least depraived indifference. we might also have to lock up pregnant women who do anything -including things like sports - to endanger the life inside her.
I certainly do not want that!

I was lucky that both I and my mother were healthy. and that she was old enough and ready for a child.

Yes, but why is it a unique case? If the arguement for abortion is that it is a woman's body and she should do what she wants with it, then why shouldn't a male be able to do the same? How is it discriminating against poor people? Hell, they would be able to skip all the government red tape and just come to me for a kidney...I would be nice and let them pay me over time

In cases of rape, incest, mother's health in danger, then yes, I would agree in abortion. Yet, most cases are not. I have a problem with aborting a fetus just because you made a mistake and can't handle the pressure and won't be able to take care of the baby.

I disagree with saying that we are drifting into the waters of genocide when it comes to aborting a baby because it is gay or because it is a female or male. Once again, why does it matter if you know if the baby is gay and you abort it, and not knowing the sex of the baby and aborting it. I see no difference. Isn't, by your classification, then there is a genocide going on right now with the abortion of millions of babies?

Also, I don't believe you can compare a woman's period or a man jacking off to abortion. A period is not something you can control. A man trying to let off some stress is not trying to get a woman preggy. A miscarriage is not comparable to someone taking a fetus out before birth and throwing it away. Now, I have no problem with taking a pill the morning after. Also, checking tampons or preventing woman from doing sports is a very extreme approach.

__________________
Diversity: The exclusion of White people

Seperation of Church and State: No religious displays...except those of Islam.

Racism: The act of a White Person discriminating against a person of actual color; a person of color (i.e., a minority) cannot perform this act.

males can do whatever they want with their bodies now in a reproductive sense. there is no issue here.
its discrimination against poor people because they won't be able to recieve lifesaving treatment. the system right now looks at health and not economic class.

its not up to people to decide if a woman's reasoning for an abortion is right or wrong. I personally disagree with some reasons but would never try to stop them.
when it comes to unplanned pregnancies, sometimes abortion is the best. obviously its good for the female. but if that fetus comes to turn it could be put into fostercare, live in poverty, be raised by someone who is immature, or even someone who is hostile and neglective toward them.

no. I used genocide in terms of "social cleansing". to say women or gay people are not good for society and need to be prevented from being born is a form of social cleansing.

it is rather extreme. I was refering to the extreme laws proposed to make a fetus a person with full rights. if its a person, a miscarriage is neglegent homicide. or a cover-up for abortion. and since 30% of all pregnancies result in miscarriage women would have to be monitored (most women miscarry and think its just a regular period. I've heard some stories I won't repeat here because of the gross content. I respect weak stomachs)
and if a fetus is alive and something like sports, could endanger its life than its an obligation for someone to stop that activity. if a parent did something that endangered their born children, they would be stopped right?

and some religions are against masturbation for this reason. sperm and ova carry unique DNA that could lead to a new life. some people do feel this way but I agree, they are extreme

I just do not see how it is discrimination against the poor. What if I started my own clinic and transfered kidneys freely and did other doctor thingies for the poor? But, I wasn't a doctor, per se. Intead, I taught myself. Would the government stand for that?

I disagree with the social cleansing phrase. What about the babies being aborted due to unplanned preggies? Isn't that a form of social cleansing also? They are unplanned and unwanted.

__________________
Diversity: The exclusion of White people

Seperation of Church and State: No religious displays...except those of Islam.

Racism: The act of a White Person discriminating against a person of actual color; a person of color (i.e., a minority) cannot perform this act.

but if you practice medicine without a lisence you are doing something to another person's body. having to be certified is not an infringment on your rights. and if something went wrong- which it probably would- you are responcible for it not your 'patients'.

it would be discrimination if more organs were bought than given freely through current donor programs. poor people who die at alarming rates, while the rich would live. this is why walter paton stayed on the list instead of trying to get around the rules with his money- he knew his life was just as valuable as someone elses.

no its not social cleansing. social cleansing refers to specific groups. as we established most fetuses who are aborted due to being unplanned & unwanted are performed without any knowledge of its DNA or genes.
these abortions are random and its not the characteristics of the fetus that determine the choice of termination.

if I grab a handful of M&Ms and throw them in the garbage I'm not cleansing the bowl of candy...
but if I take out all the orange ones, then I am.
(not the great example but it works)

I can't think of a thing much more barbaric than sacrificing 45 million children at the altar of an invented right called "choice"

__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

Is someone forcing a loved one of yours to have an abortion? Otherwise, allow women the right and the choice to differ from you and keep your moral judgments for church.

Is that bit of tripe the best you have? Are you the sort who, had you lived 150 years ago, would have hung a sign on the bumper of your wagon proclaiming that:

If you don't like slavery, don't own one?

If I searched your posts on this board, would I find that you never speak out against anything that you believe is wrong, or would I find that you are a hypocrit who feels no compunction about speaking out against things that you feel are wrong but preaches to others that they should not? And is your suggestion that I not voice my opposition to abortion not also a "moral judgement"?

And by the way, who is talking about church? My opposition to abortion is founded solidly in the law and biology.

__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma

You are terribly misinformed if you beleive that your list represents the reasons women abort by order of occurrence. The fact is that about 97% of all abortions are performed for reasons that amount to convenience. About 2.2 to 3% of abortions are due to the mother's health, and less than 0.5% of abortions are due to rape or incest.


You may not see the earth as round either, but how you see it doesn't change the reality that it is. The ability to think is not what makes you a human being and I challenge you to provide a single bit of credible science that even remotely suggests that unborns are not alive.

The fact that you are unable to distinguish between the "potential" of sperm and eggs and the realized potential of a child at any stage past fertilization is a clear indication that you don't have even the slightest grasp of developmental biology which in turn is clear evidence that your postion is founded on inaccurate material.

What gibberish. Do you not recognize the difference between a natural death and deliberate killing? Is any part of your position based on fact?

__________________
"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma