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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 12:31 AM
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:41 AM
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I just have to break things down logically to be clear and understand, ya know.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:46 AM
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie Parker View Post
There in lies your heartache over the issue...I understand now...but she's living with the decision as well. It is a privacy issue....legally.....and your past has you incapable of rationally dealing with this...deal with her.....leave the laws of the constitution where they are....it was a decision she made for whatever reason....only you know that reason.....but I am sorry for your loss....I could tell there was strong emotion in this....and you have to understand..the decision is no less emotional for the woman...many women are desperate, but it is their right and they live with the decision...still, I am very sorry for your loss 36shadow...I wish you peace with it...
Emotional yes I have dealt with it long ago I'm a guy trust me it is easier although it bothered me greatly at the time it bothered me more and enraged me how one sided the system has become. Those who call no yell for equality, a voice in the crowd, their right to be herd and part of the decision, those who yell from the mountain top how wrong it was that their voice and opinion did not count, have all done that wich they fought so hard for, for themselves. And yes I'm sure in some way she feels the pain you fail to mention one aspect the most important. She did it of her own hand mine was by her hand. If things were the other way around feminist would go ape shit and you know it. And I can be part of this and look at it subjectively. I am not for or realy against abortion I mearly think that the topic should be dealt with in a more equal and responsable manner rather than using trick or avantage of the everything in favor of the woman climate we live in. Women don't want to share the right when they want to abort the child but you bet your ass they want shared responsability of the man if they keep it. Now in cases of molestation, rape , and there own health hey no one is going to argue it is all them. The privacy thing is thin at best it is not violating there privacy to not allow them to use it as a form of birth control. Weather I agree with abortion or not it is teaching them to give no more regard for life than overcharging their credit card. And we wonder why we have more and more irresponsable adults.
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 36shadow View Post
Emotional yes I have dealt with it long ago I'm a guy trust me it is easier although it bothered me greatly at the time it bothered me more and enraged me how one sided the system has become. Those who call no yell for equality, a voice in the crowd, their right to be herd and part of the decision, those who yell from the mountain top how wrong it was that their voice and opinion did not count, have all done that wich they fought so hard for, for themselves. And yes I'm sure in some way she feels the pain you fail to mention one aspect the most important. She did it of her own hand mine was by her hand. If things were the other way around feminist would go ape shit and you know it. And I can be part of this and look at it subjectively. I am not for or realy against abortion I mearly think that the topic should be dealt with in a more equal and responsable manner rather than using trick or avantage of the everything in favor of the woman climate we live in. Women don't want to share the right when they want to abort the child but you bet your ass they want shared responsability of the man if they keep it. Now in cases of molestation, rape , and there own health hey no one is going to argue it is all them. The privacy thing is thin at best it is not violating there privacy to not allow them to use it as a form of birth control. Weather I agree with abortion or not it is teaching them to give no more regard for life than overcharging their credit card. And we wonder why we have more and more irresponsable adults.

I have to agree that there should be some say so in the matter from the man...but something legal where the woman can get the economical support from him and or his parents should he decide later on to split.

There are many men raising children whom women abandon...and some consideration should be given to a man who fathers a child and wants to raise the child....I totally agree with that...and I think that's a valid point.

I don't think, however, you can classify the majority of decisions to abort as being from "irresponsible" women. These are tough decisions...and not easily lived with after they are made....but at some point the woman must decide if there is no man involved in wanting to care for the child or commit themselves and their parents to financial support. If she is alone in this decision, then it must be hers to make. She alone will bear the responsibility to raise the child and provide for it a childhood which prepares it for adulthood and she alone must make the decision. If you will notice, the decision for the woman alone is up to 3 months...after that, according to Roe v. Wade, the decision must be made in conjunction with a doctor....that, for me, represents the child....

I think we need to see what the privacy issues are here and if they are overturned for women, then what right does a man have to privacy of his medical records....without privacy of our sexual lives and our medical records, what discrimination can follow? Being denied a job? Denied health insurance? Denied treatment for one disease because your records indicate you have a family history of another disease? Just like with spying on us with our emails and phone calls, the government's ability to spy on us in the bedroom and our medical records creates a Big Brother Communist state I'm not ready to give into...
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:22 PM
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Hi all..

Cookie, maybe you didn't get the chance...but when you do...I hope you will address my points on self sustaining and hypocrisy. This will be the second time for each post...
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:41 PM
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Joyful woman

You seem like a lovely young mother . So let me take a moment to say the following to you.

Because I have known cookie awhile I can tell you joyful woman that the basis of your argument is wrong.

Cookie is interested in stopping abortions and I know would like to see all abortions stop. Because cookie is moral she would like to see people not have unprotected sex and have unwanted pregnancies and get terrible STD's and aids. I know I can speak for cookie and say she would love it if people would just be responsible and abortion never had to be done again.

Your argument that cookie is a hypocrite because she does not want abortions stopped is simply not true .I know cookie would love to know another abortion never was needed. But cookie is smart and realistic and knows people are irresponsible espiecially young people . And that as long as men have walked this earth people have been having sex and its not likely to stop. So when that mistake happens cookie supports personal choice and being a Buddhist they believe that soul will come back anyway .

And I can attest to the fact that cookie is a moral ethical person who understands that we need to take care of sick , poor and needy children . and adults for that matter

The hypocrisy comes about in the pro life crowd who want to outlaw abortions and end all social programs paid for with tax moeny if they get their way. They want the kid born but then they could care less if it starves to death or dies from lack of medical care . Now that is hypocrisy of the worst kind and it does not go unnoticed by God . These people are heaping coals upon their own head when they insist it should be everybody for themselves in this world, and they do insist that. They claim to be Christians but seem to forget the commands of the Lord to feed the hungry and help the sick, widows and father less. They are greedy and all about themselves .
Very occasionally I run into a pro lifer who wants to help the child after its born , those people I have respect for. In fact I am one of those myself.

Tell me joyful woman are you not aware of what the beliefs are of the people you seem to be keeping company with? I hope that is the case . Because you seem like a nice young mother , and a christian and I can't imagine you'd want to leave it to charity and hope people didn't die of starvation in US streets ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyfulwoman View Post
Cookie, wow, so much for me to read through...I have to break things down, so please bear with me. I just went through all the posts and am trying to catch up.
First Point: You said that a retarded person can breathe on their own...yes, but they are not self sufficient. Is it okay to kill them??
And that did not address the preemies that are on the breathing and feeding tubes...is it okay to kill them?
And the other people that through disease or surgery are on tubes...they are not self sustaining, is it okay to kill them??
Your initial argument was about it being okay to kill if the "person" "fetus" was not self sufficient.
Second Point: And sorry if my argument on hypocrisy wasn’t clear. You had called another poster a hypocrit because he was pro life, but not interested in the other crimes against children. (Which btw..I think we all should be)
He is against abortion (A) , but not concerned about preventing trafficking, war, Darfur (B)…..which in your opinion and logic deems him hypocritical.
You, Cookie, are not concerned in preventing abortion (A), but you are against trafficking, war, Darfur (B)
Which would make you a hypocrit, as well. That is following your line of logic. It is a very simple philosophical equation.. That was just the point I was trying to make a while back, Cookie.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyfulwoman View Post
Hi all..

Cookie, maybe you didn't get the chance...but when you do...I hope you will address my points on self sustaining and hypocrisy. This will be the second time for each post...
I did...it's a few pages back.
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Old 01-05-2008, 03:40 PM
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Old 01-05-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
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Hi all..

Cookie, maybe you didn't get the chance...but when you do...I hope you will address my points on self sustaining and hypocrisy. This will be the second time for each post...
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