A real look at Roe v. Wade

StormanNorman · #51 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

Tell me then how does it become a right of privacy when at first it was a right to choose. If it was a right to privacy then a parents right to spank their kid in their home should be protected etc. etc. I fail to see how a womans right to privacy is violated when her and a man decide to have sex with out protection or protection that could fail and result in pregnancy the choice is made before the act.

Legally, I don't think there is a term "right to choose".....choose what? But, there is the right to privacy and many past cases concerning it. In your spanking example, there is a big difference....those kids are citizens and, as such, have rights that are protected and balanced against others' rights. However, in Roe v. Wade, the Courts ruled that a fetus does NOT qualify as a "person" until it can be sustained outside the womb....right or wrong, that is the balance they struck.

36shadow · #52 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormanNorman

Legally, I don't think there is a term "right to choose".....choose what? But, there is the right to privacy and many past cases concerning it. In your spanking example, there is a big difference....those kids are citizens and, as such, have rights that are protected and balanced against others' rights. However, in Roe v. Wade, the Courts ruled that a fetus does NOT qualify as a "person" until it can be sustained outside the womb....right or wrong, that is the balance they struck.

Well I can understand the difference they have concluded there I was being a smart ass to cookies remard about castration. But the privacy part how did they come to that conclusion. I'm not following the line of thought there where they came to it being a privacy issue is it because they could not make their case based on right to choose.

ONEWHITEDUCK · #53 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 05:15 PM

THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE JUST RUTTING ANIMALS.......AND THE EDUCATION SYSTEM ENTANGLED WITH THE HOMO APA AND CIA MADE IT HAPPEN :-(

BUT WHAT GOES UP MUST COME DOWN :-)

YouTube - Jesus Christ Superstar (1973) Heaven On Their Minds (2)

THEY GOT HOLLYWOOD HEAVEN IMPLANTED IN THIER MINDS :-(

StormanNorman · #54 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

Well I can understand the difference they have concluded there I was being a smart ass to cookies remard about castration.

Ouch...that's not a very pleasant thought....especially on a bar night.

Quote:

But the privacy part how did they come to that conclusion. I'm not following the line of thought there where they came to it being a privacy issue is it because they could not make their case based on right to choose.

Honestly, shadow, I'm not really an expert when it comes to Roe v. Wade and why it was a privacy issue. But, it does seem that when it comes to medical procedures, one's body, etc., privacy rights are cited the most. Why? I don't know.

Cookie Parker · #55 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

Well I can understand the difference they have concluded there I was being a smart ass to cookies remard about castration. But the privacy part how did they come to that conclusion. I'm not following the line of thought there where they came to it being a privacy issue is it because they could not make their case based on right to choose.

Let's see...privacy with regard to two issues here....sexual intimacy and the medical records...then, when you look at women without the medical procedure, well, that was butchering....

The majority of women do not use abortion as a birth control measure..that's nothing but propaganda spread about to make those against it feel as though they are fighting "sin." It's a tough and major decision...and whether the woman chooses to try to go to full gestation or abort, she and she alone is the one who lives with the decision....her right to privacy....

Does that make sense?

satv365 · #56 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 08:01 PM

I guess if you believe that garbage about privacy being directly related to a form of birth control. Hell, throw the Constitution out and just vaguely demand whatever rights you feel you need for this and that generation...

Fact is, being allowed to have an abortion is not Constitutional. Why? for the simple idea that not anywhere in the United States Constitution does it say you can have or can not have an abortion...

What else does it say in that piece of paper you like to pretend to defend?

All powers not granted to Congress ( like Legislating abortion rights ) are to be delegated to the States.

The biggest cause of people getting abortions are in order of greatest to least is...

Postponing Childbearing
Prohibitive Costs of parenthood
Relationship issues, or partner rejection
Precieved immaturity or parental objection
Disruption of work or Education
To remain childfree
abnormalities in the Fetus
Endangerment of Paternal Health
Other

All in a nice little list for you. From a study in 1998 in 27 Nations. I listed the United States. It is pretty similar in the rest of the world as well.

As you can see, abortion in the United States is predominately used as a form of Birth Control. Of that I take no opinion. I just simply reject your lies to push your little agenda of making an Abortion Amendment without making an amendment..

The Guttmacher Institute's Future: Mission, Values and Guiding Principles

36shadow · #57 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookie Parker

Let's see...privacy with regard to two issues here....sexual intimacy and the medical records...then, when you look at women without the medical procedure, well, that was butchering....

The majority of women do not use abortion as a birth control measure..that's nothing but propaganda spread about to make those against it feel as though they are fighting "sin." It's a tough and major decision...and whether the woman chooses to try to go to full gestation or abort, she and she alone is the one who lives with the decision....her right to privacy....

Does that make sense?

Hers and hers alone problem with womens rights they take fight for them but not willing to recognize the right of another. If I am married I contribute to the making of that child I should have a say in it. Privacy to sexual intamacy is not the same as the right to terminate birth because one decided to be selfish irresponsable and self serving. I have to say you have no FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. My first marriage ended mainly because I came home from a week of TAD (temporary active duty) to another unit. She had went with her cousin to get an abortion because she changed her mind and was afraid of how much it would change her body and was not ready for that. Now I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT DECISSION SHE MADE WITHOUT TALKING TO ME AT ALL FOR THE REST OF MY GOD DAMN LIFE. To explain that away as a privacy issue on her part is a lie and the greatest form of selfserveing bullshit I have herd. If many are not using it as a form of birth control then it should not be a problem to make it illegal unless a woman is molested, raped or it endangers her life if all those reasons are legal wich in many cases they are then why have a problem with not allowing those outside of those cercumstance illegal.

Cookie Parker · #58 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satv365

I guess if you believe that garbage about privacy being directly related to a form of birth control. Hell, throw the Constitution out and just vaguely demand whatever rights you feel you need for this and that generation...

Fact is, being allowed to have an abortion is not Constitutional. Why? for the simple idea that not anywhere in the United States Constitution does it say you can have or can not have an abortion...

What else does it say in that piece of paper you like to pretend to defend?

All powers not granted to Congress ( like Legislating abortion rights ) are to be delegated to the States.

The biggest cause of people getting abortions are in order of greatest to least is...

Postponing Childbearing
Prohibitive Costs of parenthood
Relationship issues, or partner rejection
Precieved immaturity or parental objection
Disruption of work or Education
To remain childfree
abnormalities in the Fetus
Endangerment of Paternal Health
Other

All in a nice little list for you. From a study in 1998 in 27 Nations. I listed the United States. It is pretty similar in the rest of the world as well.

As you can see, abortion in the United States is predominately used as a form of Birth Control. Of that I take no opinion. I just simply reject your lies to push your little agenda of making an Abortion Amendment without making an amendment..

The Guttmacher Institute's Future: Mission, Values and Guiding Principles

It doesn't talk about abortion..totally agree...it talks about rights to privacy in lives...and that's the jist....the right to privacy...why do you think it's never been overturned? And read it...for cryingoutloud...just read what it says...

Cookie Parker · #59 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 36shadow

Hers and hers alone problem with womens rights they take fight for them but not willing to recognize the right of another. If I am married I contribute to the making of that child I should have a say in it. Privacy to sexual intamacy is not the same as the right to terminate birth because one decided to be selfish irresponsable and self serving. I have to say you have no FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. My first marriage ended mainly because I came home from a week of TAD (temporary active duty) to another unit. She had went with her cousin to get an abortion because she changed her mind and was afraid of how much it would change her body and was not ready for that. Now I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT DECISSION SHE MADE WITHOUT TALKING TO ME AT ALL FOR THE REST OF MY GOD DAMN LIFE. To explain that away as a privacy issue on her part is a lie and the greatest form of selfserveing bullshit I have herd. If many are not using it as a form of birth control then it should not be a problem to make it illegal unless a woman is molested, raped or it endangers her life if all those reasons are legal wich in many cases they are then why have a problem with not allowing those outside of those cercumstance illegal.

There in lies your heartache over the issue...I understand now...but she's living with the decision as well. It is a privacy issue....legally.....and your past has you incapable of rationally dealing with this...deal with her.....leave the laws of the constitution where they are....it was a decision she made for whatever reason....only you know that reason.....but I am sorry for your loss....I could tell there was strong emotion in this....and you have to understand..the decision is no less emotional for the woman...many women are desperate, but it is their right and they live with the decision...still, I am very sorry for your loss 36shadow...I wish you peace with it...

Joyfulwoman · #60 (**permalink**) 01-05-2008, 12:23 AM

Cookie, wow, so much for me to read through...I have to break things down, so please bear with me. I just went through all the posts and am trying to catch up.
First Point: You said that a retarded person can breathe on their own...yes, but they are not self sufficient. Is it okay to kill them??
And that did not address the preemies that are on the breathing and feeding tubes...is it okay to kill them?
And the other people that through disease or surgery are on tubes...they are not self sustaining, is it okay to kill them??
Your initial argument was about it being okay to kill if the "person" "fetus" was not self sufficient.
Second Point: And sorry if my argument on hypocrisy wasn’t clear. You had called another poster a hypocrit because he was pro life, but not interested in the other crimes against children. (Which btw..I think we all should be)
He is against abortion (A) , but not concerned about preventing trafficking, war, Darfur (B)…..which in your opinion and logic deems him hypocritical.
You, Cookie, are not concerned in preventing abortion (A), but you are against trafficking, war, Darfur (B)
Which would make you a hypocrit, as well. That is following your line of logic. It is a very simple philosophical equation.. That was just the point I was trying to make a while back, Cookie.