Roe v. Wade

sotmfs · #11 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Bush's view on Roe vs Wade--"I don't care how they get out of New Orleans"

After katrina of course.

sotmfs · #12 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 04:52 PM

Why are any people more concerned about "Life" before birth than life after birth?
No money for child health care ,cut the benifets for the poor,screw the homeless,etc ,but save the fetus.

rob · #13 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotmfs

Why are any people more concerned about "Life" before birth than life after birth?
No money for child health care ,cut the benifets for the poor,screw the homeless,etc ,but save the fetus.

Would you care to offer a solution to this?

sotmfs · #14 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 05:12 PM

Yes, make me the benevolent dictator of the country and I will have the solution! lol!
Making women criminals by taking away their right to a choice,one that is ussually very difficult and hard contrary to what any think,is not a solution.

Cookie Parker · #15 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Cookie, I would like to believe this but where is the link to prove this statement?

Thanks for asking rob...

Baby Development - First Trimester

Fetus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

26 to 38 weeks
The amount of body fat rapidly increases. Lungs are not fully mature. Thalamic brain connections, which mediate sensory input, form. Bones are fully developed, but are still soft and pliable. Iron, calcium, and phosphorus become more abundant. Continuous EEG readings have been observed by the 30th week.[10] Fingernails reach the end of the fingertips. The lanugo begins to disappear, until it is gone except on the upper arms and shoulders. Small breast buds are present on both sexes. Head hair becomes coarse and thicker. Birth is imminent and occurs around the 38th week. The fetus is considered full-term between weeks 35 and 40,[20] which means that the fetus is considered sufficiently developed for life outside the uterus.[21] It may be 48 to 53 cm (19 to 21 inches) in length, when born.

Guess it was not the brain stem...but there's nothing sustainable about the fetus with regard to life until about 26 weeks...

Brain-Mind.com - environment, Neuroplasticty, neuroscience, child, development, memory, emotion, paranormal, health

Quote:

The human brainstem is fashioned around the 7th week of gestation and matures in a caudal to rostral arc thereby forming the medulla, pons, and midbrain. The medulla mediates arousal, breathing, heart rate, and gross movement of the body and head, and medullary functions appear prior to those of the pons which precede those of the midbrain. Hence, by the 9th gestational week the fetus will display spontaneous movements, one week later takes its first breath, and by the 25th week demonstrates stimulus-induced heart rate accelerations. As the pons, which is later to mature, mediates arousal, body movements, and vestibular and vibroacoustic perception, from around the 20th to 27th weeks the fetus responds with arousal and body movements to vibroacoustic and loud sounds delivered to the maternal abdomen. The midbrain inferior-auditory followed by the superior-visual colliculi is the last to mature, and in conjunction with the lower brainstem makes fine auditory discriminations, and reacts to sound with fetal heart rate (FHR) accelerations, head turning, and eye movements--around the 36th week. When aroused the fetus also reacts with reflexive movements, head turning, FHR accelerations, and may fall asleep and display rapid eye movements. Thus fetal-cognitive motor activity, including auditory discrimination, orienting, the wake-sleep cycle, FHRs, and defensive reactions, appear to be under the reflexive control of the brainstem which also appears capable of learning-related activity.

FETAL BRAIN-BEHAVIOR AND COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT

It is now well established that the human fetus is capable of some degree of behavioral complexity. In fact, as early as the 9th week of gestation the fetus is able to spontaneously move the extremities, head, and trunk (de Vries, Visser, & Prechtl, 1985). It has also been suggested that the near term fetus may be endowed with some degree of cognitive capability (e.g., Hepper & Shahidullah, 1994; Kisilevsky, Fearson & Muir, 1998). Cognition has been inferred based on alterations in fetal heart rate (FHR) and habituation to airborne sound (Kisilevsky & Muir, 1991), response-declines to vibroacoustic stimuli (Kisilevsky et al., 1998; Kuhlman, Burns, Depp, & Sabagha, 1988), and what appears to be neonatal preferences for the maternal voice as well as melodies and stories presented up to six weeks prior to birth (DeCasper & Fifer, 1980; DeCasper & Spence, 1986; DeCasper, Lecanuet, Busnel, Granier-Deferre & Maugeais, 1994; Lecanuet, Granier-Deferre, & Busnel, 1989).

As will be detailed below, the behavior of the fetus and newborn is likely a reflection of reflexive brainstem activities which are produced in the absence of forebrain-mediated affective or cognitive processing, i.e. thinking, reasoning, understanding, or true emotionality (Joseph, 1996a, 1999; Levene, 1993; Sroufe, 1996). It is the much slower to develop forebrain which generates higher order cognitive activity and purposeful behaviors, and which is responsible for the expression and experience of true emotions including pleasure, rage, fear and joy and the desire for social-emotional contact (Joseph, 1992, 1996ab, 1999; MacLean, 1990).

Then again.....

As you can see, up to 3 months, there is nothing there which could sustain itself nor be called anything but a fetus....it's not a child...it's not developed...

After 3 months, the decision becomes the woman's to decide with her doctor...

Cookie Parker · #16 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob

Would you care to offer a solution to this?

How about, don't mess with someone's life....just keep track of your own failures as a human?

Cookie Parker · #17 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

I understand you could never comprehend how some can hold this concept but there are those who actually think that an unborn infant is actually a human being and therefore entitled to the most basic of rights, i.e. the right to life.

Silly isn't it to believe that an unborn infant is actually human. I mean, after all, it could be born a monkey or a Ford Mustang. We don't really know do we?

And there are some who believe in aliens, and Santa Claus and believe they are Christ, too....doesn't make them right, just makes them ignorant.

HAVE you ever studied fetus development?

No, you would rather FORCE a woman to bear an unwanted pregnancy and once born, tell to go screw itself cuz you're done caring than to leave the life of the woman up to her....

Well, guess what? That's archaic and chauvinistic and ain't gonna change abortion at all...

Cookie Parker · #18 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathanbforrest45

Is it your belief that only men are opposed to abortion and only women are in favor of it? So in your mind the concept of life has no bearing on it whatsoever? Is it your belief that anyone who does not believe in abortion does believe in war and control etc etc, that I cannot be anti war and anti abortion at the same time?

This is NOT about abortion..it's about a woman's right to choose her own life...and those who do NOT believe in a woman's right and REQUIRE the pregnancy go full term and is born and then "well, good luck because I don't really care what happens to you" begins as many of these same people are pro-war...could care about the poor, don't believe in good educational opportunities and good jobs for all...you name it...after birth, it becomes anti-life for many..

Personally, I believe those of your particuliar mindset view abortion as a religious experience and like any religion logic and reason have no seat at the table. I believe its very easy to be a liberal, no thought processes are involved, no logic is necessary, no reason need apply.

Well, now, aint' we the bad clairvoyant....my beliefs come from the conviction that NO one has a right to judge another's life and make their decisions which they , and they alone, will have to live with save the PERSON involved...in this case, the human female.

Roe v Wade is not going anywhere in the near future, no matter who wins the white house in 08 so this argument from a poltical position is meaningless. However, from a moral position, I would hate to have to explain to God why I was in favor of murdering millions and millions of infants.

Well, you know God's old saying...."Judge not lest yea be judged." I'm sure he won't ask you for an explanation...you have a johnson, right?

I think your pompous judgment of others may get a bit under his skin...he likes to be god...many claim he's been doing for a while...I'm sure he cain't stand to have someone such as yourself stand in judgment on another's life...anyhoo, that's what I'm banking on!!

Teak · #19 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 06:21 PM

I have visited this issue, on many different forums, and I see a trend. Very, very few women come out against legal abortions. Those who speak out against it, are almost exclusively male, and are always against it for religious reasons. Personally I think they are against it because of their ego's. More like; "how can MY WOMAN go against my wishes"?

Cookie Parker · #20 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teak

I have visited this issue, on many different forums, and I see a trend. Very, very few women come out against legal abortions. Those who speak out against it, are almost exclusively male, and are always against it for religious reasons. Personally I think they are against it because of their ego's. More like; "how can MY WOMAN go against my wishes"?

I will agree..and it's not just MY woman..it's HOW CAN WOMEN GO AGAINST MAN'S INTERPRETATION OF GOD?