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11-11-2007, 07:49 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa,Fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upton
I've never understood the problem. Why can't each individual woman decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion, without the government or religious groups interfering? The choice is a private one, and I'm sure a painful one, it's nobody else's business.
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I actually agree with you if by "interfering" you include paying for it.
I have a hunch, though, that when you say "...without the government...interfering" you actually mean...the govt should just pay for it no questions asked. |
11-11-2007, 08:18 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie Parker
It is topic focused...pro-choice...which is what the article reveals, includes decisions for all persons...healthcare in this nation is for profit so that the more money you have, the better the health care coverage you get.
Anti-choice people OFTEN claim the poor should not have access to what they wealthy get by saying THEY won't pay for abortion.
Now, Dom1, let's see...you have not addressed one issue of abortion, pro-choice, commented on any of the topics at all, but instead have tried to derail this entire conversation..especially as it gets to a real discussion..course, I know you don't have the ability to discuss but just troll...and I love pointing it out...you're an easy mark for people capable of discussions to view as incapable of thought.  |
Alright Cookie, as being that you're Pro-Abortion, I'm willing to hold a vote on this. All in favor of allowing you and everyone else like you to abort your off-spring, say Aye...
Enter Your Vote Here:
My turn...  All in favor of paying extra taxes to help in this glorious cause of Cookie and her kind killing off their off-spring, say Aye...
Enter Your Vote Here:
Damm...! I think I'm going to lose on this one Cookie. I don't expect one "Nay" in opposition.
__________________
A Liberal is a Man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel (Robert Frost 1874-1963).
Last edited by Realist1; 11-11-2007 at 08:23 PM.
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11-11-2007, 08:25 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixaholic
lets look at the premise of this post.... and lets say cookie you are right.... the following is 100% completly true....
How "Pro-Life" is all about anti-choice for women
But once again i want to go baxk to the roote of this statement.... What are these women choosing..... what is there choice....
Well... give up... ok i will tell you...
Choice #1... keep the baby.
choice #2... kill the baby " i know you libbs dont see it as killing(i was once a liberal to).... but it really is killing.... because if an abortion doesn't happen there is life..... but when it does there isn't life.......
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Well, not on your premise....see, them brainstem isnt even hooked up until after the 3rd month so you don't have a human in there..you have a pregnancy...prior to the 2nd month, you have a zygote...
so, there's a pregnancy, which is not a life...it's about a woman choosing if she will continue the pregnancy of not based upon her life and what is going on with it....including her role as mom....it's called a decision of conscience and is something shared by soldiers in battle..do I kill this child or let it live?
Clarification concerning the acquittal of a soldier who refused to serve in the Iraq war
Quote:
Who wants to study the judgment in its full wording (in German, altogether 136 pages, can find it on the Website of the Federal Administrative Court: Bundesverwaltungsgericht Leipzig | Aktuelles (more info to be found on Universität Kassel: Home)
1. A charge may only be regarded as adequate if it clearly states which breaches of duty the accused soldier is charged with. This means presenting a detailed account of events and relating it comprehensibly to the soldier's conduct and to the resulting charge. The charge must be made evident by establishing a precise connection between the description of the conduct of which the soldier is accused and the conclusions drawn from it by the army prosecutor.
2. The primary duty of every soldier in the German armed forces under the first and second sentences of Section 11(1) of the Military Act (Soldatengesetz) to execute orders 'conscientiously' (as completely and quickly as one is able) requires not unconditional obedience, but obedience which is discerning and which in particular considers the consequences of carrying out the order, in terms of the legal boundaries and the ethical limits of one's own conscience.
3. The Basic Law (Grundgesetz) and the Military Act lay down legal limits for obedience that can be divided into seven groups. A soldier does not have to carry out an order, on the ground that it is unreasonable, if he can invoke protection of the fundamental right to freedom of conscience (Article 4(1) of the Basic Law). The protection afforded by Article 4(1) of the Basic Law is not overridden by the fundamental right to recognition as a conscientious objector (Article 4(3) of the Basic Law).
4. A decision of conscience is any serious moral (i.e. relating to 'good' and 'bad') decision which an individual in a particular situation regards as a binding inner duty, making it impossible for him to act against it without serious moral distress.
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Contrary to the attempts by right winging radical religionists, women are not whores, NOR madonnas, but humans like men who are all somewhere in between the designs. The choice to have an abortion does not come easily...it is hard....except maybe in the case of rape and incest...and other times it is a hard decision made out of love...not selfishness... |
11-11-2007, 08:27 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realist1
Alright Cookie, as being that you're Pro-Abortion, I'm willing to hold a vote on this. All in favor of allowing you and everyone else like you to abort your off-spring, say Aye...
Enter Your Vote Here:
My turn... All in favor of paying extra taxes to help in this glorious cause of Cookie and her kind killing off their off-spring, say Aye...
Enter Your Vote Here:
Damm...! I think I'm going to lose on this one Cookie. I don't expect one "Nay" in opposition. |
Again, sorry, but the role of God has been taken over by oceanbreeze...you have no power over my life for my decisions of conscience...no more than I have over your life....
I am an American with freedoms to choose....and if you're not going to support me and my decisions for the rest of my life, you have no business putting your nose in my business.
BTW, how much of your money goes to help pay for medical bills for poor children in your city? For food for them? For their housing? For new school clothes and shoes and new toys? For new books? New bikes? How much? |
11-11-2007, 08:33 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
I actually agree with you if by "interfering" you include paying for it.
I have a hunch, though, that when you say "...without the government...interfering" you actually mean...the govt should just pay for it no questions asked.
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Too bad this is the prevailing thought in America....although it does exhibit a successful campaign by the rich through people like Limbaugh to indoctirnate people into not wanting to see the poor have equal access to the law, medical practices of the wealthy, good jobs...etc.
This anti-poor stand was also a very successful campaign propaganda issue from the evangelical movement..which is why that movement is NOT a Christian organization at all.
When you say the wealthy can have an abortion, as Dan Quayle said he would get for his daughter if she turned up pregnant and unmarried, and yet so loudly proclaim your REFUSAL to allow the poor to have it, you are providing the wealthy will all the tools they need to rule....and have dominion over you.. |
11-11-2007, 08:34 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got it!
cookie pro-choice is held by those who never have had an abortion, miscarried, or lost a child I assume you have never been pregnant.
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I'd love to see your statistics on that, Dom1 |
11-11-2007, 08:43 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie Parker
Again, sorry, but the role of God has been taken over by oceanbreeze...you have no power over my life for my decisions of conscience...no more than I have over your life....
I am an American with freedoms to choose....and if you're not going to support me and my decisions for the rest of my life, you have no business putting your nose in my business.
BTW, how much of your money goes to help pay for medical bills for poor children in your city? For food for them? For their housing? For new school clothes and shoes and new toys? For new books? New bikes? How much?
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We agree on this Cookie. Your words: I am an American with freedoms to choose....and if you're not going to support me and my decisions for the rest of my life, you have no business putting your nose in my business.
Don't ask me to pay for abortions for anyone...Got it?
__________________
A Liberal is a Man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel (Robert Frost 1874-1963).
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11-11-2007, 08:53 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Realist1
We agree on this Cookie. Your words: I am an American with freedoms to choose....and if you're not going to support me and my decisions for the rest of my life, you have no business putting your nose in my business.
Don't ask me to pay for abortions for anyone...Got it? |
Not in the deal...I don't want war...quit supporting it with my taxes...
the freedom is to choose......you personal freedoms...and it is not about the wealthy being able to abide by the constitutional rights to an abortion and denying the poor the ability to do the same..you're a person who hates enforcing constitutional freedoms for all? |
11-11-2007, 08:56 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 1,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie Parker
Too bad this is the prevailing thought in America....although it does exhibit a successful campaign by the rich through people like Limbaugh to indoctirnate people into not wanting to see the poor have equal access to the law, medical practices of the wealthy, good jobs...etc.
This anti-poor stand was also a very successful campaign propaganda issue from the evangelical movement..which is why that movement is NOT a Christian organization at all.
When you say the wealthy can have an abortion, as Dan Quayle said he would get for his daughter if she turned up pregnant and unmarried, and yet so loudly proclaim your REFUSAL to allow the poor to have it, you are providing the wealthy will all the tools they need to rule....and have dominion over you..
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My gosh, you're dense! You're obsession with Limbaugh is really funny. Just so you know, by the time Rush came along, my feelings on abortion had been long established. But thats neither here nor there.
The post you quoted was in RESPONSE to a left leaning poster who said:
"I've never understood the problem. Why can't each individual woman decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion, without the government or religious groups interfering? The choice is a private one, and I'm sure a painful one, it's nobody else's business."
All your envy of the wealthier does not change my view. If a woman wants to have an abortion, go for it. But it shouldn't be publicly funded.
You can name any publicly funded program you would like. The existence or non existence of any other program makes no difference on my OPINION of financing abortions.
I don't care if you're rich, poor, black, white, married, single...it makes no difference. Poor women should have just as much right to murder babies as rich ones. YOU want to make it a class battle. Its not.
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11-11-2007, 09:03 PM
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Political Mastermind
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme
My gosh, you're dense! You're obsession with Limbaugh is really funny. Just so you know, by the time Rush came along, my feelings on abortion had been long established. But thats neither here nor there.
The post you quoted was in RESPONSE to a left leaning poster who said:
"I've never understood the problem. Why can't each individual woman decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion, without the government or religious groups interfering? The choice is a private one, and I'm sure a painful one, it's nobody else's business."
All your envy of the wealthier does not change my view. If a woman wants to have an abortion, go for it. But it shouldn't be publicly funded.
You can name any publicly funded program you would like. The existence or non existence of any other program makes no difference on my OPINION of financing abortions.
I don't care if you're rich, poor, black, white, married, single...it makes no difference. Poor women should have just as much right to murder babies as rich ones. YOU want to make it a class battle. Its not.
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Who's envious of the wealthy? It is just a fact there are wealthy who can afford better health care coverage because..they are wealthy. Unlike the socialized medical countries who provide better health care and all have access, the US supports the notion that only the wealthy are allowed to have the constitutional freedoms of an abortion. That's where I say it's not true and that the poor should have equal access to the constitutional rights and have the abortion if they choose to do so.
I'm against war, but my money supports it because no one has charged Bush with a crime per our constitutionals laws...so, may taxes support this war.
And it is a class battle and you yourself have made it one. And your slant on murdering babies is not valid as it has been stated there is no human until the brain stem is connected....
And if killing babies were the real issue, and NOT anti-choice for women, we wouldn't be funding a war in this nation, either. |
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