That is not what I was refering to.

Sure, in certain ways I would say the same thing but the 'cow is out of the barn' when it comes to how many things our gov tax payer money gets spent on. Debating whether abortions are funded or not seems sort of superfluous for me when there are a long list of things that are funded...but we will get in a debate about our funding of an Iraq war that is wrong in many ways that kills people too.

You may not agree with the Iraq War and I respect that disention. Had I known how the majority of this war would have been fought I would have dissented as well. However, the Constitution states that the Commander-in-Chief is the top military man in the country and military, defense and war funding is spent to protect the interests of the United States which supports the infra-structure. The same cannot be said for an abortion. With one, the Constitution is on his side and the other isn't. Furthermore, if the Congress decides they want to halt the funding for the war (considering that's why a lot of people put them as the majority) then they should have the "testicular fortitude" to do so.

I would welcome the chance to discuss these and any other issues you'd like to discuss. I enjoy the discussion.

I'm against 'abstinence only' programs and farm supports, but my tax dollars go to them. We all "pay" for things we don't like. That is the price of living in a civilized society.

I agree. I would also like to see funding cut for NPR and Planned Parenthood. They both get plenty of private donations. Radio is radio. Couldn't that money go to women's shelters or something a little more worthwhile? However, the "price" of living in a free society is also rising up. I rarely see the conservative movement rise up - with the exception of the Illegal Immigration Reform which was a good thing to see. Somehow, the left seem to be able to mobilize much better and much more efficently than the conservatives do.

I am going to come back to abortion and keep it there, I think it is important to the argument and the thread. It is my fault for going the other way for second but I was illustrating a point.

Steve, these are the very brutal realities of human nature and society:

We are designed to pro-create and we WILL HAVE SEX regardless of themost stance views about religion, sex, chastity. Everything that is a biological entity on the planet is designed to pro-create. And, not in a million years is anyone with some 'pie in the sky' view of morals and values going convince me that every child born has a high % chance or becoming the next nobel prize winner let alone a person who is not depedent (somehow) on society in some way, shape, or form to exist.

So you don't want gov funded abortion for an unwanted new person to be put into society?

Now, many more of your tax $s will be used to later aid that person all the way from adoption services by the state to special educational services in public schools, to drug rehab services---to paying more for a criminal justice and penal system when that future person becomes a lawbreaker. Remember these are your tax payers dollars and you, as a conservative, don't want to pay all this money out for these things.

Brutal? Nope, look at %s Steve, the numbers are with me on this. And, we can talk about 'morals and values' too---religious compassion, but in the end it is better to give an abortion rather than go for an unwanted pregnancy and the domino effect 'on your tax payer $.' This is an unwanted human being that nobody gives a sh*t about enough to raise properly from the beginning. Conservatives want people to be self-reliant? This person in no way will be able to be self-reliant because they are not going to be put into a 'training cycle' of self reliant or productive.

In far more primative societies a retarded or deformed baby was left out the wild to die. Yep, brutal. Before you take that step how about the society offering the abortion?

Sorry, but this is where I see myself as being a moderate and go with the brutal reality of what our taxes do pay for. I will go for the much chealer abortion rather than a real drain on the whole system later.

The bottom line in all of this is that unless the mother's life is in danger we are still talking about rewarding irresponsible behavior. I have no issues with adoption agencies and have no issue with giving tax $$ to those facilities to give the unwanted kids you speak of a happy home. I have more than 1 friend who had to go outside the country to adopt because there was either too much red tape here in the states or other factors in them not being able to adopt "lcoally". Maybe we should look at some of the laws and ask ourselves why we have to go outside the country to adopt when there are so many kids here who need homes. My issue isn't abortion and I understand your reasons although I did not once hear you mention the father. Is he willing to care for a child he helped create? Does he have a say in this at all? Should he? I believe he should.

Regarding sex, I agree with you. I lost my virginity at an early age and while I was irresponsible in most everything in my life as a teenager, the one thing that did stick with me was the realization that I didn't want to be a father. I had a friend who did become a father at 16 at that wasn't a very good thing for him, obviously. While I certainly wouldn't have been labeled a stud (the '80's were the peak of 'mullettdom' and I had mine!), I suppose I did okay but always had a condom with me if I thought I had a chance to "score". Most times, I scored with myself but that's another story Sex obviously affects different people ways and people react differently towards it - especially their first time. Luckily, I was good with it and those first few girls I was with seemed to be good with it. I never had anyone freak out on me (let alone a parent coming after me) but I had seen/heard about it with others. That could get scary sometimes.

Rudy is a tool!

Well this is a simple one the doctor is allowed his moral and religious belief not to give the morning after pill. Then why is it not my right not to fund it if is against my moral and religious belief. Because by using my money make me an indirect particapant. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm double standard????????

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When you came into this world you cried.
Live your life so that when you die.
The world cries. the shadow

Are you a mistake?...becoming pregnant is not a "mistake" it's the creation of life. Having intercourse and ejaculating sperm into a female , then becoming pregnant is no mistake. Failing to employee steps that prevent ejaculation into a womens vagina is the only mistake. Abortion is simply Governmentally regulated genocide.

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"People have so manipulated the concept of freedom, that it finally boils down to the right of the stronger and richer to take from the weaker and poorer whatever they have left."