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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
Did he admit this voluntarily? Or was he forced to admit that there were no hard numbers (not enough reported cases) for to support his claim.
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He (Bernard Nathanson) admitted it because it was not true. He knew the real numbers but they didn't create an image that would grab national attention so he lied. He and his organization repeated the lie until it was percieved as the truth.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
the FACT is, that when something such as this is illegal (and at the time quite shameful, as it should be now in a lot of cases), people don't report it. They do it very, very quietly. How do you count what is hidden?
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I might ask pro choicers how they count what is hidden.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
Here's the bottom line for me. You are trying to legislate morality. This also applies to many other areas of law besides abortion. In my view it's the job of the social and spiritual leaders to to knit together a cohesive population of right thinking and right acting people. If folks were still being raised by principled example, perhaps the religious community wouldn't have so many of the flock wandering astray. Or is it ... if the religious and social structure (the village) has failed enough that folks are raised without principled example.
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The bottom line is that all law legislates morality. It is wrong to steal so we make law that prohibits stealing. It is wrong to kill so we make law that prohibits killing and the list goes on and on. Suggesting that this case, and this case alone is an instance of legislating morality is laughable.
Unless, of course, you are advocating that we eliminate all laws with regard to one human being killing another. If you aren't, then you are just another hypocrit trying to make a case where none exists.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
There appears to be the same problem with both views on this issue. In the end, people are going to do it anyway if they don't posses the moral responsibility of their actions. You can't legislate that. In the end, young girls and tiny humans die.
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People are going to always commit crimes. Are you suggesting that we strike from the books any law concerning any crime that continues to happen after it becomes illegal?
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
IMHO, the enormous amounts of energy and money wasted on fighting this battle at the government level would be exponentially better used to minister to our villages. That's not to say you need to go forth and introduce people to your religion at every opportunity, but simply serve the less fortunate.
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This is not a religious issue for me. I never introuduce religion into it. This is a human rights issue and your attempt to make it religious in nature is no more than a needless introduction of a strawman to the issue.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
The "less fortunate". This is a term that has become far too narrow in my opinion. It has nothing to do with economics, and everything to do with a persons spiritual state. in the circumstance of abortion, ANY woman facing that decision is in a less fortunate state.
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Killing another human being is never a reasonable response to one's lack of fortune
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
I think we can all minister to our villages by being good people, friends and neighbors. Not necessarily in a strictly religious sense, but in a spirit of humanity sense as well. The only way to rid ourselves of the social ills that plague us is to make sure that that we have a strong social/community structure.
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Agreed, but no such structure is ever going to be possible as long as human life is devalued to the point that one human being may kill another human being without legal consequence for no better reason than convenience.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
I'm sorry, but I get pretty cheesed off when I see protesters outside clinics heckling woman as they go in. Not in defense of the choice these women have made. Not because it's pouring salt in an already sore wound. But because you are there criticizing a decision that has already been made, instead of out in your community trying to intervene before the circumstances that lead to abortion as a choice can take place.
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A decision to kill another human being for no better reason than convenience.
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Originally Posted by OkhamsRazor
IMHO, it's not the addition of abortions clinics or well armed gangs or drugs that is the source of these ills. It's the absence of community, the disappearing neighborhood block parties, civic groups, safe public areas, and reasons to turn off the TV and get out of the house. It's the loss of kick the can and American heroes that are remembered for more than 15 minutes.
This fix and so many others will never be attained at the national level. It's a community thing. A family thing. A personal thing.
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So far, the entirety of your argument is no more than a series of strawmen that serve no purpose other than to detract from the true issue. That is, abortion is one human being killing another human being without legal consequence for no better reason than convenience.
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