05-29-2008, 01:16 PM
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Machiavelli Incarnate
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Merrimack, NH
Posts: 4,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
Those who use "birth control" pills with abortifacient properties might not be aware that they could be aborting their children and killing without intent is manslaugher. Murder is one human being killing another human being with intent. Can you offer up any credible evidence that killing an unborn at any stage is not killing a living human being and therefore prove that abortion or "birth control" methods with abortaficient properties does not deny a living human being the right to live?
See above
See above
See above.
I don't side step anything. I don't lie, I don't attempt to manipulate the facts, I don't misinform, and I don't try and trick people into believing what I believe by subterfuge.
And once more, you resort to your appeal to popularity argument. I have to say that if you are going to engage in a logical fallacy, you do it by the book.
I will agree with you in part that if abortion were banned, that it probably wouldn't be long before drug companies would have a perfect or nearly perfect contraceptive on the market. One that simply stops a woman from ovulating and has no abortifacient properties.
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You aren't being honest about "your science" so let me quote "your scientific truth" to you:
Quote:
Q15 Does the intrauterine device (IUD) cause abortion?
Yes, the IUD does not prevent ovulation37 and works by changing the inner lining of a woman's uterus so that the newly conceived child cannot implant in the womb.
Q16 Do groups who favor abortion admit that BCPs and the IUD work by causing an early abortion?
The most ardent pro-abortion supporters openly admit the abortifacient nature of the BCP and the IUD. In his arguments before the Supreme Court in 1989, in the case of Webster versus Reproductive Health Services, Mr. Frank Susman, arguing for the pro-abortion side, spoke to Justice Anthony Scalia: "If I may suggest the reasons in response to your question, Justice Scalia. The most common forms of what we generally in common parlance call contraception today, IUD's, and low-dose birth control pills, which are the safest type of birth control pills available, act as abortifacients. They are correctly labeled as both."38
Q17 Do other hormonal "contraceptives" such as the long-acting progestins cause early abortions?
Norplant, manufactured by Wyeth-Ayerst, and Depo-Provera made by Pharmacia-Upjohn are made of artificial progestins. Norplant is composed of levonorgestrel and Depo-Provera of medroxyprogesterone. Depo-Provera is a long-acting progestin that is injected every three months intramuscularly. It is used worldwide despite the fact that animal and human studies have all shown that it increases the risk of breast cancer by at least 190% in women who took it for more than two years before the age of 25!39 Norplant is an artificial progestin that consists of a series of Silastic (rubber-like) strips which are filled with levonorgestrel and implanted under the skin of a woman's upper arm and slowly release the progestin into the woman's body over a five year time period. Norplant has been found to allow breakthrough ovulation in over 44% of a woman's monthly cycles.36 In addition, a study of rabbits conducted by Chang40 has shown that sperm freely reached the rabbit's fallopian tubes-even when the rabbits were given high doses of synthetic progestin. The combination of a high rate of breakthrough ovulation and documented sperm migration to the fallopian tubes in animals suggests that progestins such as Norplant and Depo-Provera allow a high rate of fertilization and subsequent abortion, most likely even higher than BCPs.
Q18 Does the "the morning after pill" cause an early abortion?
The "morning after pill" consists of a series of high dose BCPs that some women have taken one or two days after thinking that they have conceived. These high dose hormones act as an abortifacient by thinning the lining of the uterus, thus preventing the newly conceived child from implanting. The animal model described by Castro-Vazquez in 1971 demonstrated this effect in rats.41
Q19 Some emergency rooms give "hormones" to women who have recently been raped. Can this cause an early abortion?
The woman who comes to the emergency room within a few hours of being raped may or may not have already conceived. Some ER staff will give such a woman high dose estrogen and progestin hormones very similar to the "morning after pill." The exception is often found in Catholic hospitals whose physicians may not give the "post-rape pill." For the woman who is raped near the time of ovulation, the hormones may indeed stop ovulation and prevent conception. But if ovulation and conception have occurred, the hormones will work by causing an early abortion in the same way as has been described for "the morning after pill." Since there is no way to know whether conception has occurred, some physicians will not prescribe the "post-rape pill."
Q20 Does artificial fertilization cause early abortion(s)?
Every method of artificial fertilization that this author is aware of, whether it be in vitro fertilization or ZIFT (zygote intrafallopian transfer) or GIFT (Gamete intrafallopian transfer), involves the death of many unborn children during the process. Fewer than one out of 20 conceived children "survive" the process of in vitro fertilization. Even GIFT involves the exposure of more than one egg to multiple sperm - a situation in which multiple early abortions are extremely likely to occur. In addition to these methods, it is possible that women who take fertility pills such as Clomid ® (which work by causing the ovaries to "super-ovulate") may be experiencing early abortion(s). Some studies,42-45 but not all,46 indicate that this drug thins the lining of the uterus, theoretically making it more difficult for the conceived child(ren) to implant.
Q21 Can the estrogens that women take "after menopause" cause an early abortion?
Often women are started on estrogen replacement near the time of menopause. This usually has a beneficial effect of reducing the risk of osteoporosis, while increasing the risk of uterine and breast cancer. Unfortunately, many women are now starting estrogen replacement before they have completely stopped ovulating; that is, they are not always in true menopause but are still having occasional cycles. If a woman were to start estrogen at a time when she was having an occasional cycle, she could still conceive and have an early abortion. This is something to be aware of, and women who wish to avoid this effect should not start hormonal replacement therapy until they have not had a cycle for a one-year period.
Q22 Why was the term "contraceptive" placed in quotations when referring to the various artificial hormones?
Oral "contraceptives", Norplant, Depo-Provera, the IUD, the "morning after pill," and the "post-rape pill" all work by causing an early abortion at least part of the time. The word "contraceptive" was placed in quotations because all of the evidence points to these hormones or procedures as being abortifacients. That is, they cause an early abortion some of the time. Contraception technically means, "to prevent conception." Clearly, the hormones alluded to here cause the death of the preborn child after conception and cannot accurately be solely called "contraceptives."
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Canadian Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform | Abortifacient Facts
So, your "scientific truth" "proves" that at least a billion women are murders and that hundreds of million women are annually murdering a billion human beings.
So, until you provide "scientific proof" that an embryo in a petri dish or frozen in liquid nitrogen or inside a woman isn't a human being, then you are stuck with claiming that most of the people of the world support killing human beings by the billions.
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