[quote=wolf_22;426585]thats my opinion about a fetus that can't think or feel yet. its still only unique potential[/color]
But those attributes are not what make you a human being or what make you alive. This is evidenced by the fact that those who are more intelligent or more empathetic are not more alive than anyone else or more human than anyone else. Being human doesn't depend on you manifesting your potential to any degree. You are what you are on the day you are concieved and no amount of age, growth, or maturing will ever make you more alive or more human.
[quote=wolf_22;426585]I know that its wrong to judge people and that is only a job for God. Judging a person based on the land of the law is one thing, judging their hearts, character, and other non-legal attributes is not right for any flawed human to do.[/color]
Unborns are being denied their right to live in opposition to the law of this land wolf. Abortion is decidedly unconstitutional.
[quote=wolf_22;426585]I would never want a mere human to judge me. naturally it happens, doesn't mean I have to like it or be comfortable with it. unlike you I understand that just because I don't like something doesn;t mean I can stop it or its right to get invovled in other's choices (be they right or wrong)[/color]
You are the sort who would deny that a living human being is not alive and not human so that you get to decide whether they live or die for any reason that you care to make up. You want to be judge jury and executioner for the most innocent among us wolf, don't be a hypocrite and cry about how you don't want to be judged.
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Originally Posted by wolf_22
I don't support killing children.
aborting a fetus or zygote is another issue.
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Of course you do and no it isn't. Child, zygote, infant, fetus, etc., are just words we use to describe a human being in a particular stage of thier life. A zygote is as alive and human as it will ever be. We don't become more alive or more human because we are older and more mature. You deny the truth wolf so you make it impossible to have any meaningful discussion as to whether abortion is OK or not.
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Originally Posted by wolf_22
for the most part I only deal with the legal and medical aspect, not the moral one.
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No you don't. You run away from the legal and medical aspect of the issue. In order to discuss the legal aspect, you must come to terms with what is being killed. You have not done this. You deny the truth and are completely unable to substantiate your opinion in any way. Until you can come to terms with what is being killed, it isn't possible for you to apply any legal argument to it.
As to the medical, you run screaming from that side of the issue. The medical community is in agreement that unborns are living human beings from the time they are concieved. There is no argument within the medical or scientific community. There is much argument over whether it is OK to kill them or not, but no argument as to what they are. So no, wolf, you do not deal with either the legal or the medical aspects of this issue.
If your argument has any fingerprint at all, it is a moral one. You claim that it is ok for a woman to kill her children because she feels like it. That is a moral argument. It exposes a near total lack of morals, but it is a moral argument none the less.
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Originally Posted by wolf_22
and its not right for anyone to tell a woman what to do with her body. its dangerous and leads to negative consequences.
I have plenty of compassion for pregnant females
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This argument fails every time you try it wolf because hundreds of laws are on the books that tell us what we may or may not do with our bodies. You pick this one issue to whine about and that makes you a hypocrite. And your morals lead you to favor the right of one to live over another for reasons that rarely amount to more than convenience. Some set of morals you have there.
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Originally Posted by wolf_22
yes they do. they don't think or feel or have awareness until week 14. proven.
thats not life, that a mass of tissue
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Again, thinking and feeling are not what make us human beings. Children born without brains are human beings to the exact degree as you. They are handicapped and will not live long, but they are exactly has human as you.
I invite you to prove that the ability to feel is what makes you a human being. We both know, of course, that you won't, because you can't. A living human being is simply what you are, not a product of the degree to which you manifest your potential. If that were the case, those who are more intelligent, or more feeling would be more human than those who are less feeling or intelligent. Clearly that is not the case.
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Originally Posted by wolf_22
I have already proven my point. multible times.
you have hubris and are very ignorant if you think any woman has an abortion for a paltry reason or approaches the choice with ease. its the hardest choice most females will ever make. and you should understand that.
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No wolf, you have not proven anything. You have given your oppinion and been completely unable to support it with any sort of credible materials at all. That does not constitute proof of any sort.
And I realize that in order to have any crediblity, I actually have to provide credible materials to back my position up disproves your accusation of hubris on my part. I don't expect my argument to be believed just because I say it is so. I seek out and provide credible proof to back up my position.
And I have invited you over and over to name a situation in which the woman's life or long term health is not in danger that doesn't meet the definition of convenience. To date, you have not even named a single situation. You make these whining appeals and pleas, but are unable to offer up a situation that doesn't amount to convenience. And the fact that it is a tough decision does not mean that it is not being made for reasons of convenience. Most of the choices we make, and some of the most difficult are matters of convenience wolf.
The fact is that you support allowing women to kill their unborn children without legal consequence for any or no reason at all. I am not surprised that you would have a problem facing the truth of your position. Most pro choicers spend their entire energy on the subject in an attempt to deny their position because to admit it destroys your argument but until you come to face the truth of your position, you simply can not offer up a rational, honest argument in defense of it.
So do as you always do and run away. If you are so dishonest that you lie to yourself rather than face the ugly face of your beliefs, what sort of actual conversation could we have anyway? A conversation in which one side is all lies is worse than no conversation at all.
You may not like what I say wolf, but at least it is true and I can back it up with as much credible material as you want to see. Can you say the same for your argument?