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Originally Posted by steve k
Illegal wire-tapping, eh? That's what your going to hang your hat on? Who was tortured by the way that hasn't been tried and convicted where necessary. Give me dates and specific examples. And as far as the war goes, I agree with you on the basis that had I known the way it would have been fought until the surge I would have never have supported it. However, since the surge despite what you would like to have everyone else believe there has been progress. It always amazes me that people like yourself are more interested in the "rights" of those trying to kill your brothers and sisters fighting in distant lands than you are in American lives.Who know? Maybe that makes you a better person than me.
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Steve, the point here is that facts don't matter to those who live in a fantacy world. They hate Bush simply because he beat them at their own game during his election against their hero Gore.
I don't agree with everything Bush has done, but i am glad he was sitting by that phone instead of Gore when the crap hit the fan.
I do not like the Patriot Act at all. I think it is a major violation of the Constitution however, to tap phone conversations of non-citizens that have to do with the war on terror has my vote.
As for torture, this is war. I do not know where people get this notion we have to be humane during war with those who want to kill you. This is just stupid. We have war rules? Come on.
"You can kill me this way but not that way." How ridiculous is that. Dead is dead. If you have to put pain to someone to prevent more deaths, then I am for it. Yes there are non-torture ways to get information but when those methods fail to get what you need, then more drastic measures are needed.
Whoever said torture doesn't work, doesn't know their history of human warfare and intelligence gathering. Torture has been used effectively for centuries.
Simply put, if Gore did exactly the same thing as Bush has done, you would be hearing how bold and great he is. This really has nothing to do with the war on terror but everything to do with the fact they just can't get past the 2000 election.
Remember these same people called Reagan a dolt and idiot too. But guess who brought down the USSR? Not Carter.