But you are wrong wolf and there is a vertiable mountain of evidence that proves you wrong and nothing at all except your own unsubstantiated opinion by way of proving you right. Simply saying that they are not alive and not human beings is not a rational basis for holding the belief that you are right. It is irrational, bordering on psychological.


The real world proves you wrong in every instance wolf. Bleeding heart faith is not a suitable substitute for looking at what actually happens. People of the criminal persuasion don't view people like you as lifesavers who genuinely want to help them. They view you as patsys who are easy marks. They work up a couple of crocodile tears and tell you that they are sorry and bada bing bada boom, they are out on the street again victimizing. You, and those like you are the ones responsible for the crime rates wolf. You believe that you can rehabilitate a stone cold sociopath so you let them back out to prey on society again and again.

Those days are long gone wolf. When we did that, the service was low tech. You need to be educated to get into the service today. In fact, the average private in the marines has a higher degree of education than the average citizen. The military isn't a place to shuffle losers off to. And you seem to not realize that the military worked in its day because it was harsh and demanded disipline or one would get killed.

I asked for you to name some of the programs that our 7 trillion dollars have paid for that have delivered what they promised. Obviously, you can't. You admit that they have failed miserably and yet, you believe that sooner or later they will work. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity wolf.

We don't have to view the suffering of one group as something that affects us all because the government has replaced the responsibilities of community wolf. A nameless faceless bureaucracy takes care of "those people". They get their checks and services from people who they don't know and who don't know them or anything about them beyond what they wrote on the forms, and that is all they want to know. Those bureaurcrats service thousands so are completely unable to get to know who they service.

Community doesn't service, community helps because community knows who you are. We are no longer connected because of the very government programs that you support wolf. You and people like you are responsible for lost community and yet, you are completely unwilling to give up the very things that are destroying community while at the same time, you lament the lost community. Explain that sort of thinking to me wolf.


You deny human nature wolf. You believe that the government can force people to open up and mix with glee. The fact is that our social lives are deeply rooted in and organized upon religious loyalties or ethnic or sexual distinctions. We are human beings wolf and biologically, we operate in certain ways. You can deny human nature and use the force of government in an attempt to change it, but it won't work; it will only cause problems, as we have seen.

Since modern liberalism has been forced upon us as a society, the close knit communities have been torn apart by government bureaucracies and political correctness. You want close knit communities that include everyone but that is not human nature wolf. You can have what we have, or go back to close knit communities that were founded on religious loyalties or ethnic distinctions but you can't have both. Clearly, you would rather have what we have than community because you continue to deny human nature in favor of the status quo.


Sorry wolf, it isn't. It is about modern liberalism. Modern liberalism has replaced community with bureaucracy and people no longer need to help each other out because the government does it. Elderly people die in appartment buildings and are not found for weeks because no one feels the need to check on their neighbors any more because people aren't part of communites any more. They are isolated because of government.

Those close knit communites that you claim were so great existed before modern liberalism was forced upon us wolf. They weren't perfect but they were better than what we have today. Modern liberalism has destroyed most of them.

You don't seem to understand that if government weren't replacing community, that they would reorganize. If government weren't claiming that it could be all things to everyone and take care of each of us, we would begin to take care of each other again. Of course, there would be strings attatched. If the community takes care of you, you will be expected to conform to the standards of the community or your welcome will soon be worn out. But that is what held communities together wolf. Denying human nature doesn't change it.

You are dead wrong wolf. Take a ride out into the country where the conservatives live and still believe in community. Take a look at a place where neighbors still check up on the elderly and visit them just to talk. Take a look at a place where someone drops by to cut a sick or elderly neighbor's grass without being asked. Take a look at a place where people still have picknicks. Take a look at a place where when you go to the softball game, the people on each side know and work with the people on the other side and everyone in the stands as well. Take a look at a place where people have bake sales and BBQ's to raise money to help a neighbor and friend who is having problems and where people stop to buy a cake or a plate even when they aren't hungry because they want to help out. Take a look at a place where people know each other and where people care about each other and a place where people help each other out because that is what they are supposed to do.

Go visit a very small town wolf, or a small rural community. That is where the conservatives live together wolf and it is the last place where you can find that sense of belonging, and interdependence that you claim to long for. Conservativism is compassionate wolf and it isn't compassionate lip service, it is roll up your sleeves and help your neighbor compassionate and there are places where you can still see it in action every single day.

[quote=wolf_22;420955]Those are conservative attributes wolf. Those are the result of people depending upon each other rather than the large, impersonal, disfuctional bureucracy of government. Conservativism creates community because it requires that we depend upon each other. Modern liberalism replaces that feeling of mutual support and interdependence with cold government inefficency. You can't have it both ways and the more you try for it, the worse it will get.

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"It's not alive, It's not alive, It's not alive. Because I said it isnt', there's your proof jerk." ...lexi

"As far as your logical fallicy shit - shove it. I am a woman."...naturemomma