Thread: Abortion
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:19 AM
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PaleRider PaleRider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Ereponemos View Post
It being part of the female body, she is allowed to decide what experiments are performed on it. I don't see how her willingly saying "please remove this thing" is not accepting permission.
Since we have effectively shown that it is not part of the mother's body, we can dispense with this fallacious argument. Unless, of course, you can provide some credible science that states that it is part of her body. Otherwise simply conceed the point and move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Ereponemos View Post
seeing that it is in turn a piece of her body, I don't understand how this is all untrue. Please elaborate
Irrelavent since you are not going to be able to prove that it is part of its mother's body. If it were true, this sort of science would be as easy to produce as science showing that it is not part of her body is. Your position, apparently, is based on fantasy, things you, or someone you trust has made up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Ereponemos View Post
As stated before, the fetus is attached to the umbilical cord, the umbilical cord is attached to the placenta, and the placenta is attached to the body of the pregnant woman. Are you going to deny the truth and claim that a fetus is living but not gaining nourishment from the mother?
Inside of, or attatched to does not constitute part of. And you have yet to show any legal precedent for dependence being a valid reason to kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Ereponemos View Post
You see it as a living being, I see it as a part of the female body...If a picture is worth a thousand words, how come each is different? Are you saying that someone else's perception of this picture is wrong?
I am not operating from what I believe and I am not fabricating my position out of whole cloth. How you see a thing and how I see a thing is completely irrelavent if there is proof of that thing that shows that we are undeniably wrong. If the way you "see a thing" is based on ignorance of the subject, how you "see" it means nothing beyond the fact that you really don't have enough knowledge at your disposal to know what you are seeing.

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new human being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, PATHOLOGY OF THE FETUS AND THE INFANT, 3d ed. (Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers,), vii.

"Not only is it a life, but, “by its intrinsic biological nature,” it is a human being from the moment of conception, for “it can be nothing else."E. Bleschmidt, THE BEGINNING OF HUMAN LIFE 16–17

Nealis v. Baird, 996 P.2d 438, 453 (Okla. 1999) “Contemporary scientific precepts accept as a given that a human life begins at conception.” (citing KEITH L. MOORE & T.V.N. PERSAUD, THE DEVELOPING HUMAN 14 (5th ed.); SUSAN TUCKER BLACKBURN & DONNA LEE LOPER, MATERNAL, FETAL AND NEONATAL PHYSIOLOGY: A CLINICAL PERSPECTIVE 49; MICHAEL R. HARRISON ET AL., THE UNBORN PATIENT: PRENATAL DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT 14; DALE RUSSELL DUNNIHOO, M.D., PH.D., FUNDAMENTALS OF GYNECOLOGY AND OBSTETRICS 286–99

Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings." John C. Fletcher, Mark I. Evans, "Maternal Bonding in Early Fetal Ultrasound Examinations," New England Journal of Medicine, February 17, 1983.

You will note that the references I have provided are from medical school textbooks in the subjects of developmental biology, embryology, fetology, and OB/Gyn as well as respected, peer reviewed medical journals.


Again, I welcome and invite you to provide some credible science that states explicitly that unborns are not alive or that they are part of their mother's bodies or proves any of the other misconceptions that you are presently operating under.

I am interested to see if you continue to hold your pro choice position when all of your arguments are shown beyond any doubt to be false. If you are a typical pro choicer, you will. Are you typical?
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