Originally Posted by Golam

COUNTERPRODUCTIVE you sound like you are a genuine idealist and believe you have found a way to express and rationalize your idealism through the actions of Jimmy Cater. I respect that and anyone's attempt to try find peace. However I respectfully point out the following. Its interesting in the list provided as to what Hamas will do, i.e.,

in regards to 1-Hamas will accept any agreement negotiated by Mr. Abbas and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel provided it is approved either in a Palestinian referendum or by an elected government-Hamas has actually stated the very opposite to its own people and on t.v. the radio and in the Muslim press, i.e., it has openly stated it considers Mr. Abbas, Mr. Olmert and for that matter the King of Jordan, liars and who must be removed and replaced in a new kingdom which would incorporate the West Bank, Gaza, Israel and Jordan and so when they discuss of approving the above it is in context to it also being able to create a new nation out of Israel and Jordan-why the Carter Centre selectively ignores that last part I have no idea;

in regards to 2- when the time comes, Hamas will accept the possibility of forming a nonpartisan professional government of technocrats to govern until the next elections can be held; that is also interesting since they continue to state daily they will not form a government with anyone who they do not first approve of-again the second part of what they said seems to have been selectively passed over as well;

in regards to 3-Hamas will also disband its militia in Gaza if a nonpartisan professional security force can be formed; actually no Hamas did not say that ever-what they said is they will never disband and will never stop fighting until all of Israel amnd Jordan are taken back-what they did say is they would welcome the cooperation of Mr. Abbas and Mr. Abbas' militias in that regard-again I have no idea who did the translation or why the context for what they said is presented in such a ridiculous manner;

in regards to 4-Hamas will permit an Israeli soldier captured by Palestinian militants in 2006, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, to send a letter to his parents-no they will not and they said the exact opposite and this will not happen unless Israel agrees first to exchange prisoners;

in regards to 5- its stated Hamas agrees that f Israel agrees to a list of prisoners to be exchanged, and the first group is released, Corporal Shalit will be sent to Egypt, pending the final releases; hey finally something that is exactly what they said in Arabic;

in regards to 6-Hamas will accept a mutual cease-fire in Gaza, with the expectation (not requirement) that this would later include the West Bank-yes but again the second part of the context from which it was stated seems to have been mysteriously left out and that is-it views the ceasefire as a resting period until it will be strong enough to once again continue its battle to regain Israel and Jordan;

in regards to 7-Hamas will accept international control of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt, provided the Egyptians and not the Israelis control closing the gates; again this is what they said but we again are missing the remaining context it was stated in relation to and that is, it would not agree to international control but only Egyptian control because it believes the Egyptian Army as has been the case to date has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood an ally of Hamas and will assure that it can bring in missiles and other weapons.

You state the Carter Centre stated Syria’s president, Bashir al-Assad, has expressed eagerness to begin negotiations with Israel to end the impasse on the Golan Heights. He asks only that the United States be involved and that the peace talks be made public.

Again that's nice but it selectively skips the rest of the context and that is, Mr. Assad said that constantly while building a nuclear reactor and both he and has father have said that constantly while its Ministry of Propoganda bombards the air-raves and web-sites with articles calling for the destruction of the State of Israel, denying the holocaust and promulgating racist fabrications about Jews. Its said while he openly funds Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and over 300 other terrorist groups who have all stated their goal is to eradicate Israel.

Hitler also said he was eager for peace when he met Neville Chamberlain. What one says and what they do must be looked at together and not selectively.

You repeated this notion; through more official consultations with these outlawed leaders, it may yet be possible to revive and expedite the stalemated peace talks between Israel and its neighbors.


On that last statement I can not disagree with you and commend you if you believe its possible and I hope it is. Where I disagree with the Carter Centre is that it has become a dupe for Hamas and gives its expressions of terror legitimacy because before Carter sat down with them, he failed to do what Tony Blair did with the IRA or Ghandi did with the British, or Martin Luther King did, or Sadat and Rabin did-he failed to have it openly stated by the people he was going to speak with that they renounced terrorism as a legitimate means of political expression.

A terrorist, and for that matter any sociopath or psychopath will be glad to speak with you and tell you anything you want to hear. That is what terrorists are. They are manipulators. They manipulate. Only Neville Chamberlain or a naive fool would sit in a room with a sociopath and think what they say is truthful because it sounds charming.

Again Hamas of course will make veiled references. Its doing nothing more then Arafat used to do. Play Carter like the idiot he is. Carter wants so desperately for something to be true, he has become blinded by his own arrogance and ego.

What this is about is Jimmy Carter outraged the Israelis were able to get so for with Bill Clinton but not him. He felt Clinton should have followed his lead and did not and now is trying to counter Clinton's legacy with his own only its not working.

There is not one leader in the Middle East, Mummar Ghaddafi and President Assad included who take what Hamas or any other terrorist group says literally and Carter would have Israel and the rest of us take them literally?

More to the point why did Jimmy Carter and the Carter Centre when they released the above, not also complete the full contextual reference to what was said rather than just take portions of what was said?

Why ahs the Carter Centre ignored what Hamas said in the Muslim media at the same time it met with Carter which diametrically contradicted everything they are alleged to stand for?

Here is the point. Only a fool sits with a terrorist whose stated goal is to kill and engage in violence and break all laws known to man, and feel such a person is competent and trustworthy.

To even remotely qualify to have capacity to negotiate in good faith a terrorist can't sit there and expect people to talk peace with him when he is pointing a gun at their head and says, this is just temporary and is us buying time to regroup and get more weapons, as soon as that is done Jimmy can fuck off and we will finish what we started and kill the whole stinking lot of you.

For me who has been there and been face to face with Hamas I know better and I know the Israelis know better and do not have time nor the luxury to be able to explain that to you just as the Palestinians dying because of Hamas don't either.

You want serious peace talks, you won't see it until you see Hamas the over 300 other terrorist groups first state publically they agree Israel should exist and will give up their weapons to a neutral third party military for destruction.

When you see that happen, you will see the IDF go back to their barracks.

It is that simple and yet that difficult.

These terrorists are not innocent people.

This notion because Hamas says so, it must be so is called wishful thinking and Carter wants so desperately to show he can do what Clinton did not, driven by his ego before he dies to create a legacy that he has turned himself into another Neville Chamberlain or former Attorney General Ramsay Clark someone who will jump at any chance to prove he is righteous.

This is not about what Carter says or thinks. This is about what Palestinians and Israelis can trust.

Neither trusts Hamas no matter how much anyone believes its only Israelis who do not trust Hamas.