Argue With Everyone Political Forums - View Single Post - At what point do humans cease to be humane?

FreedomForWho · #46 (**permalink**) 04-30-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_22

I've seen miscarriages at 8 weeks- doesn't look like a baby. doesn't have a working brain either.
and msot abortion take place before week 12.

brain waves are not thoughts. thoughts and conscious awareness comes from the frontal lobes. feeling comes from the parietel lobes, but you still need frontal lobes to be aware of those feelings.

forcing a rape victim to be raped for 9 months is wrong. and there is no justification for that.
beinging sick children into this world knowingly isn't right either. I suppose if you really think its okay to have a kid suffer like that, go ahead. but its wrong to stop parents from wanting to ensure they don't birth sick offspring who will suffer.

its not easy to determine if abortion is the best- many people who grew up poor or abused/neglected, can say they wouldn't wish that on anyone.
many people who are sick wish they didn't have to deal with that.
many parents who have buried unhealthy children regret it.

who is to know what is best for a child or potential better than the woman carrying it? better than its parents?

there are also legal issues. do we want the gov makes our medical choices?
coudln't this lead to not only the gov forbiding abortion but even one day deciding who was fit to give birth either through forced abortion or sterilazation?

abortion also aids society in a few ways. it one keep the gov away from medical and personal choices. it gives women moe autonomy. it decreases unsafe abortions. aids poor women who otherwise couldn't afford safe, illegal abortions (often times doctors would perform abortions but lie and mark down something different on the medical charts when it was illegal). and it lowers crime rates.

from a female perspective- I should have complete control over my body
from a perspective of someone who wants to be a parent one day- I want my child to be wanted, able to be cared for to the best of my abilty, and healthy.

from a religious perspective- heaven is bettter than this life.

and from my personal view- I don't assume I know how anyone's life really is or why they make their choices. nor would I ever say their choices are simple or made on a whim. which is why I find it best to leave these option to each person and no one else.

I love it when you're mad nature. cut right through the BS

Illegal abortions do not decrease...

Speaking before the 93rd Congress of the US, Senator James Buckley stated: "Data from foreign countries having far longer experience with legalised abortion than we have had in the US, suggest that legalisation has no effect on the criminal abortion rate. In at least three countries, the criminal abortion rate has actually risen since legalisation. Legalised abortion moves the back alley abortionists into the front office where their trade can be practised without fear of criminal prosecution."

Reference:
The Least of These: What Everyone Should Know About Abortion, Curt Young, 1984, Moody Press, Chicago, IL, p215

Not to judge you on your opinion, but if you do believe in "God" and heaven, it is less likely for you to make it there given your views on this matter. ((Not an attack, just information))

Genesis 9:6 states that we are made in God's image and therefore our lives are precious and whoever takes the life of another human being, forfeits the right to his own life.

We are made by God; "For you created my inmost being. You knit me together in my mother's womb....Your eyes say my unformed body." Psalm 139:13-16 (cf: Is 44:24; Acts 17:24-25; Psalm 100:3; Job 10:8-12)

Because all life was created by God and belongs to Him, no one has the right to murder another human being. "You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13. The Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood according to Proverbs 6:16-17. The Bible also teaches that we need to defend the weak and the helpless. "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves...defend the rights of the poor and needy." Proverbs 31:8-9 (cf Ps 82:3-4).

Abortion also has a negative effect on the health of the individual.

"Every study of induced abortions performed before the first live birth is consistent with an initial increase in risk of at least 50 percent," reports Dr Joel Brind, professor of endocrinology at Baruch College, City University of New York, who is also a breast cancer researcher on staff at Beth Israel Hospital and Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. He has also submitted his research on this subject to the Journal of the American Medical Association for peer review (Nov 1993).

During a woman's first pregnancy a surge of the hormone, oestrogen, causes the breast cells to divide, become mature, and capable of secreting milk. During this process of cell division they are more suscepible to carcinogens (cancer causing agents). If the pregnancy continues to full term the woman's breasts are then fully mature, the cells stop dividing rapidly and this counterbalances the initial surge of oestrogen. However, if the woman has an abortion, that natural process is interrupted. Her breast cells remain immature and are more susceptible to breast cancer.

Other studies agree with this position: In Brazil, more breast cancer patients reported having had abortions than did the control group. The rate of breast cancer among women in Finland increased with the number of abortions. The risk among Italian women with one of more legal abortions before a first live birth was increased by 42 percent. Among Chinese women who developed breast cancer before the age of 40, abortion before first full-term pregnancy led to an increased risk of 140 percent. The Soviets have one of the world's highest abortion rates and the incidence of breast cancer among Russian, Estonian and Soviet Georgian women tripled between 1960 and 1987. 14 Can South Africa afford the cost?

Even legal abortions are bad for you and unsafe...

"There are many complications that may arise from an abortion. It is not a 'quick fix' at all. The complications include: Ectopic pregnancies, Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (reported in up to 30% of all cases11), subsequent infertility and miscarriages, future premature births (often because of a cervix that was damaged during the previous abortion), small-for-dates babies and placenta praevia, which is 7-15 times more common among women who have had abortions than among those who have not."

Reference:
"Induced Abortion: A Risk Factor for Placental Praevia." by Jeffrey M Barrett, MD, American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, December 1981, p769

If children are viewed as expendable before birth, they will be viewed as expendable after birth. A study by Dr Phillip Ney, Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Christ Church, New Zealand, clearly pointed to the fact that abortion (and its acceptance of the violence of killing the unborn) lowered a parent's psychic resistance to violence and abuse of the born.

Reference:
Relationship Between Abortion and Child Abuse" by Dr P Ney. Canada Journal of Psychiatry, vol 24, 1979, p610-620

Would you say it is alright to murder a human being, as long as it is not a person???